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My rack: too much or not enough?

Original Post
Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306

So I'm bored this afternoon and I've been playing around with my trad rack. Some of you may recall a thread I started about practicing gear placements, and that I was going to try and go with just passive pro for a while. Well I quickly realized that whilst I prefer passive pro when I can get it, there are times when a cam is just the best thing to use. So I bought some.

I'd like to hear some opinions on what I have. Besides local places like Eldo and Lumpy, I'm hoping for a few trips to Vedauwoo. And at some point this year a road trip to Moab and Zion, with other stops along with way including potentially some climbing around the Grand Canyon and maybe somewhere in New Mexico. Big plans, but I'm only leading 5.8 in trad right now. Hoping to bump that up to at least 5.9+ by the end of the year.

Anyway, here's the list:

Metolius Master Cams 00-6 (singles)
Metolius Power Cams 7 and 8 (singles)
Metolius Super Cams S,M,L (singles)
DMM Wallnuts (single full set)
DMM Offset Alloys (single full set)
DMM Peanuts (single full set)
DMM Torque Nuts (second set, which is a gift, is coming soon)
Camp Tricams; white, black, pink, red, blue, brown (2 sets)

Short quickdraws (x2)
24" alpine draws (x9)
36" alpine draws (x2)
48" alpine draws (x2)

And a couple 20' cordelettes (one 7mm, one 8mm) with 3 lockers each.

I really do want some input on this because as nice as options are to have, this thing is pretty freaking heavy now!

Creed Archibald · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 1,016

Get a set of BD C4s from .5 - #3 and then you'll be set. ;)

Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306
C. Archibald wrote:Get a set of BD C4s from .5 - #3 and then you'll be set. ;)
Instead of, or as well as the Metolius cams?
Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306
kcradford wrote:How much gear you need on a route depends on what the route takes. From what you have listed you seem to have more than covered all the basics, and can start adding pieces that you feel like you need based on what you wan to climb. like a route that takes an extra large cam. I personally climb with about the asme # of cams and 1/2 the passive gear that you have 1 set of nuts, and 1 set of tricams, I have had few instances where a Hex would come in handy much less 2 sets. You mentioned that you like to try to climb on all passive, and that probably why you have so much. I would say instead of carrying all of that gear up every route, spend some time assessing what you need leave what you don't.
This is good advice and I think what I need to do is start looking at what I used and what I didn't on each route so I can better figure out what to take and what to leave behind. Unfortunately, my lack of experience makes choices like that difficult at present. Though I can always use the MP route guide when this advice is listed.

Strangely, I've take one set of tricams up some routes and wished I'd taken them both. I've seen spots when I really could use that green hex (that I places earlier) in a sideways placement where a cam won't work, and had to make do with a marginal tricam. And I've had instances where I used all the cams in the range I need and realized why people carry doubles. And then there's all the gear I didn't use, just weighing me down. I did a single pitch yesterday that looked from the ground like I could use my larger cams, but once I got up there, found they were useless because the crack flared too much. I guess learning to read a route better will just take time. Also it's possible that I getting too placement focused. I could just run it out a little and find another placement too.
M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090

What, no Hexes, Bigbros, Sliders, Ballnuts, off-set cams or big Tricams? What are you going to do? I tend to carry too much gear, which ends up being very unpleasant. So lately I have taken to rapping down and preplacing then climbing without all that crap hanging off me. So much nicer :)) Climbing, not weight lifting. Only works for short routes. Longer ones I am considerate and offer to second.

Chris Schmidt · · Fruita, CO · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 0

That will work in most places. In Moab you will need AT LEAST one more full set of cams and a #4 minimum.

Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306
M Sprague wrote:What, no Hexes, Bigbros, Sliders, Ballnuts, off-set cams or big Tricams? What are you going to do? I tend to carry too much gear, which ends up being very unpleasant. So lately I have taken to rapping down and preplacing then climbing without all that crap hanging off me. So much nicer :)) Climbing, not weight lifting. Only works for short routes. Longer ones I am considerate and offer to second.
Lmao!

Yeah I have considered even MORE gear such as the bigbros and big tricams, and once or twice I thought about preplacing gear. Or just having a tagline and a basket so I can get more gear from my second when I start running out. I could even climb with no gear and just lower the basket with a little note asking for the piece I think I need. I could ensure the right piece by taking a micrometer up with me. Hanging out and waiting, then bring the basket up would be good for my endurance. But then the note could blow away on windy days and that might get tedious. I should get radios, or not climb on windy days. Or I could just sport climb, but then I couldn't use gear as an excuse and would have to climb harder. This is all too much! I should have stuck to bouldering. Why did I ever bring ropes into this?!
Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306
Chris Schmidt wrote:That will work in most places. In Moab you will need AT LEAST one more full set of cams and a #4 minimum.
Thanks Chris. I may have to beg, steal and borrow for that. I think that the largest super cam is about a #4 though.
Muscrat · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 3,625

You hit it on the head...it's too much, and never enough. As previous poster well said, pick where you are going and tune your rack to that. I agree w/ the BD. I have too many (80+) cams, but then not enough when i am at trout creek (Goldrush takes 5+ #2's!) or Indian Creek (stitch up with 6- #.75 on some tough 10's. Most of the time that you need multiples in cams you are in splitters, which often do not protect well, or at all, with nuts.
Vedauwoo? Small gear there is a #2!! I would at least have a #4 for my standard rack, i have 3, 2-#5 and a 6, but then i am a glutton for punishment, and have the scars to prove it.
Have you led on the supercams? I liked them at first, then when they walked all over me, i broke up with them.
And while you are not asking....the best advice i ever got for breaking into the higher grades was by a guide at the top of Bishop's Terrace (He was guiding someone else) who asked what i climbed. "I lead 8 and follow 11" said i. He said "Why the grade difference" to which i replied "I don't trust the gear". "Get down, and go aid climbing".
Best advice i ever got, i was leading 10's in a week. Seriously.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
Muscrat wrote: And while you are not asking....the best advice i ever got for breaking into the higher grades was by a guide at the top of Bishop's Terrace (He was guiding someone else) who asked what i climbed. "I lead 8 and follow 11" said i. He said "Why the grade difference" to which i replied "I don't trust the gear". "Get down, and go aid climbing". Best advice i ever got, i was leading 10's in a week. Seriously.
or French freeing AKA grabbing the silver jug of joy. its a good feeling just knowing you can finish a route any way possible and learning to trust the gear along the way.
Bill Czajkowski · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 20

I'd think for most places, for typical climbs you'd be fine. If you go to Indian Creek or somewhere that you need multiples of each size you'll need multiples of each size.

Kent Richards · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 81

I climbed for years in CA on a single set of Metolious 0-10 cams (TCUs & FCUs), one set of stoppers, pink / red tricam, and 2 hexes just larger than the stoppers.

If your partners have gear, you can combine racks as needed.

Depending on what you're climbing, you can stop and build an anchor when you're low on gear.

When I started, I placed a lot of passive gear. But, the harder I climb, the more I use cams.

Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306
Muscrat wrote: Have you led on the supercams? I liked them at first, then when they walked all over me, i broke up with them. And while you are not asking....the best advice i ever got for breaking into the higher grades was by a guide at the top of Bishop's Terrace (He was guiding someone else) who asked what i climbed. "I lead 8 and follow 11" said i. He said "Why the grade difference" to which i replied "I don't trust the gear". "Get down, and go aid climbing". Best advice i ever got, i was leading 10's in a week. Seriously.
Muscrat, I've led on the super cams once so far. I placed all three of them in a 5.7 offwidth. No falls or takes on them. I didn't notice any walking when I lowered and cleaned them, but as I am overly concerned with cams walking, I almost always extend cam placements.

I remember you mentioning the aid thing on the thread I started about practicing gear placements. And I did go and do some aid climbing, which made me feel better. What made me feel even better than that was hearing from more experienced climbers who have fallen other their gear enough to trust it, then getting to clean their placements, and seeing one fall on a small cam and getting to clean that too. Now when I place a piece, I know if I truly trust it, or in it's just "good enough" to get me a few feet further to somewhere I can get a good piece in. Most of my placements I'd take a fall on if I didn't dislike the fall zone (or falling in general, of course). The ones I wouldn't, I know why I wouldn't and I back them up ASAP.

So it's not that I'm scared to fall on my gear at this point. It's either than my belayer is untested or significantly lighter than me (like 70lbs), which makes me nervous. Or, it's that I still don't feel familiar enough with my rack yet to be trying to make placements in really strenuous positions. And as I'm only just leading 5.10a sport (which really means, I'm not comfortable over 5.9 sport yet), I feel leading in the 5.8 range on trad isn't really that low. But I do understand what you're saying.

And as a general response, I guess I'm going to need to ask closer to the time of my road-trip what gear I'll need for what areas. Some of my partners have gear, but the one I'm road-tripping with will be coming from outside the US and won't be bringing an pro. I'll start looking at routes more carefully and try not to take more than I need. I won't be needing the hexes for a finger crack .... but a miracle might be nice!
Tom Sherman · · Austin, TX · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 433

Mathias, if your bored and want to waste sometime, i've got a website for you to drool over

SLCD Range Comparisons

Unfortunately the best feature, 'find the matching slcd' seems to be broken of late (maybe its my browser??). But you can still use the other features.

JeffL · · Salt Lake City · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 65

It's kind of like a penis... if you have to ask, it's not big enough.

Petsfed 00 · · Snohomish, WA · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 989

My standard, do-anything-anywhere-without-checking-the-guidebook rack is a single set of nuts, and a double set of cams from finger-tips to fists. That'll get you up just about any average, 150' 5.8 in the country without thinking about it too hard. Some places will need a second set of nuts, some places will need tricams, some places will need a dozen of each size, but if you're traveling, you'll be generally set.

That's what I carried at Vedauwoo for years, although I added an old-style #4 camalot, because the vast majority of routes required one. I can't recommend stocking up on cams bigger than that unless you're set on doing a route that needs one.

Get yourself a proper second set of cams and you can probably stop acquiring cams at that point.

Alex Kowalcyk · · Idaho · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 65

I too started climbing on Colorado granite, and started leading with only passive gear up to 5.7's. I think that's a great way to start because some climbers never learn how to properly place passive gear. The things is, once you're into 5.10 territory, cam's make all the difference by saving you time when you're pumped.

You won't get very far off the ground in Zion without climbing 5.10. There are some easier routes, but not many.

You should have at least a full rack of cams, that way when you're partner has the same you have doubles. If you both have doubles, you're pretty much set. I often climb with triple cams of certain sizes in Zion. Desert cracks are easy to look up at and tell which sizes you need.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
JeffL wrote:It's kind of like a penis... if you have to ask, it's not big enough.
what she said?
Idaho Bob · · McCall, ID · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 757

A few suggestions: add a set of Metolius Offset cams, drop the second set of tri-cams, add doubles of cams in sizes .75 through 3. When climbing don't always carry the full rack, adapt it to the route. Make sure you have enough lockers for anchors and slinging critical crux moves.

Muscrat · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 3,625

SOld my Metolius master cams and my offset MMC's and switched to the x4's. Awesome hardware! I would double in those.

Bill M · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 317

I would not mix the BD and Metolius cams. I find it to confusing to keep track of what's left on my rack. I like to carry doubles in the bd 0.5 to 2 sizes when climbing near my limit.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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