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Fraction of climbers who follow a hangboard-fingerboard program

csproul · · Pittsboro...sort of, NC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330
Jon Nelson wrote:Thanks for all the interesting replies. Other than the greasy/dirty issue, I can see the gym hangboard being unpopular also because it is so much more fun to boulder or climb something in the gym. As some of you have pointed out, the climbing is generally better training. For home boards, I can see the pulley system helping out with making things easier for weak guys like me, but connecting everything up and being leashed to a weighted pulley seems like a hassle. On the other hand, the benefits are there for those with the dedication.
I actually think the pulley system is almost essential for good hangboard routine. It allows a quantitative measure for your progress on edges/grips that are too difficult for you to hang on to for any length of time.
Richard M. Wright · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 9,090

A campus board is integral to developing and maintaining contact and lockoff strength as well as dynamic movement, and it works better than a finger board. Keep your goals first in your mind and forget the pain. As the ancient sages have noted:
You are what your deepest desire is.
As is your desire, so is your will.
As is your will, so is your action.
As is your action, so is your destiny.

Aleks Zebastian · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 175
Micah Klesick wrote: haha I followed the Rock Prodigy hangboard training, but with more aggressive weight additions. 7 sec on, 3 sec off, times 7 sets, per grip. Then do the grip again, and add 7lb of weight and repeat the sets. I do that for 6 grips. Then the next time I do a session (three days later) I start at the added 7lb, and then add 7lb more the next set. I also have a pulley installed, so I can add or remove weight as needed. For example, on the 1/3pad crimp, I had to take off 20lb when I started, and when I finished my 6th set, I was adding 15lb to my harness. I don't climb at all during my hangboard phase, just hangboard and rest between. The rest of the time, I factor the type of training I want to focus on into my outdoor routes I choose to climb, and climb at least twice a week.
Most incredible, climbing friend!

I do not think I could stop pursuing the glory and satisfaction of the flash long enough to finger the board and hang only while doing no real climbing. I most enjoy climbing for flash usually 4 days per week, sometimes 3 and sometimes 5.

If you really believe it may be helping me achieve 5.14 flash, then perhaps I may try this "hangboarding," but I would be very afraid of training only bent arm fingering strength while the activity would be totally ignoring the movement technique on the climbing rocks, as well as the mental strength on the climbing rocks.

Also if you practice hanging hard on your wee fingers with slightly bent arm, would you not be training yourself to bend your arm during hard moves on the real climbing rocks, rather than keep it straight and do the conserving of the energy?
kenr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 16,608
Jake Jones wrote:Hangboarding ... is designed to build strength through hypertrophy. Simply put, the more mass your forearm muscles have, the stronger they are.
The RCTM book which gives the latest version of the "Rock Prodigy" method is very careful to avoid claiming that hangboard training gives a focus on HYPertrophy. Is careful to avoid claiming that their hangboard phase is a HYPertrophy phase.

Jake Jones wrote:There is perhaps no better way to build forearm strength than hangboarding.
Sort of like saying,
There's no better way to build bicep strength than to hold a weight out in front of you in a static position for 7-10 seconds.

Anybody want to take a survey of serious strength-training or body-builders or weight-lifters to find out what percentage train their biceps with isometric static lockoffs as their main exercise?
Chris Hill · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2007 · Points: 0
"Please do not be afraid of the boulders, they will make you a man instead of merely manboy"

I don't know, I've kinda gotten used to the manboy lifestyle.
Patrick Shyvers · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10
Jake Jones wrote:It seems odd that you sort of summarily dismiss getting stronger for a particular hold by saying hangboarding isn't the answer.
I fear I must have tragically misspoken. Did it sound like I was saying that? My point was that hangboarding has in fact been just the answer for certain particular challenges I have faced.

I certainly agree it is not the only part of training though, and that's where I liken it to drills in other sports. Practicing your 3-pointer shot by itself doesn't really make you better at basketball- that's just one of the skills.

P.S. I only listed ball sports earlier, but the point is nearly every sport has training drills to address specific skills or strengths, and I do not believe rock climbing is such a rare and exotic bird that it alone would not benefit from drill training or strength training.
kenr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 16,608

In response to the idea of measurable training methods more relevant to actual climbing ...

reboot wrote:What would those be?
Get one of the Eric Horst books for two or three other methods.

I think the best method (and one which seems to be used by the highest percentage of high-difficulty climbers) is ...

(A) System Board
Set up moves near your limit (one approach is to set three or four identical moves in a row, in alternating sideways direction). When you can do one of those sequences (? perhaps multiple times with little rest between ?), then (after writing it down) you have some options for increasing the difficulty:
  • Try to do it wearing (increasing) weights in a vest or pack.
  • Use different footholds which make the balance a little harder.
  • Change some of the handholds to be a little smaller or a little slopier.
  • Re-set the handholds to make the Range-of-Motion of the reaches a little longer.
And write it down: A normal system board has a two-dimensional coordinate system for identifying the position of each hold.

My gym has a good System board, but so far I can only do one of the sequences. So until I get stronger (or better technique?), I have to do most of my measured exercises on simpler apparatus ...

(B) Campus Board
This has been discussed lots on this forum. I think it's less specific than (A) for climbing because it usually does not offer diagonal moves. And because many public campus boards do not allow you to touch your foot to the wall to stabilize your body. (and many public boards have other drawbacks unrelated to climbing-specificity). But if you're lucky to have access to a good public campus board, or build your own at home - (I have both), then you can fix those shortcomings.

Then enhance campus board exercises with all those things people like to do with fingerboards: add weight, try different hold sizes and shapes, carefully record and track their results - (even do Static hangs! but from more interesting and climbing-specific configurations).
RCTM and Dave MacLeod books both warn against the danger of becoming addicted.

Ken
M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
Patrick Shyvers wrote: I fear I must have tragically misspoken. Did it sound like I was saying that? My point was that hangboarding has in fact been just the answer for certain particular challenges I have faced. I certainly agree it is not the only part of training though, and that's where I liken it to drills in other sports. Practicing your 3-pointer shot by itself doesn't really make you better at basketball- that's just one of the skills. P.S. I only listed ball sports earlier, but the point is nearly every sport has training drills to address specific skills or strengths, and I do not believe rock climbing is such a rare and exotic bird that it alone would not benefit from drill training or strength training.
no , Jake didnt finish reading your post from what I see
reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125
kenr wrote:System Board...Campus Board
A system board would be better, especially an adjustable angle one, but those can't be mounted over a doorway & you may not get to set the holds you want if it's in a gym. And by in large, the movements you can execute on a system board are pretty simplistic & isn't a substitute for well set boulder problems on 3 dimensional walls.

Also, complex movements aren't always the best training tool when you have a clear deficiency, as you can compensate with your strength. I have very little body strength deficiency so it doesn't make sense for me to do a move over & over until my core strength wears out but offers poor finger strength training. For someone with the reverse problem, one can easily injure the finger/wrist repeating a move with poor body control. Still, in climbing, a lot of things can be compensated if you can hold on, which is probably why people (over) gravitate toward finger strength training.

I've never found the rungs on a campus board to be small enough to simulate the type of holds I'd usually have trouble using outside. The body control & explosiveness I learned were pretty useful. But I've also had my share of strain/injury w/ a campus board.
Altered Ego · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 0

Bodybuilders train forearms but they don't use hangboards.

Chris Rice · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 55

Figure out your weaknesses - work to improve them. Early level climbers need to climb - and climb - and climb. Intermediate level climbers can "probably" benefit from increased finger strength as much as any other single thing so hang board might be the thing for them. Advanced will likely get more from a campus/system board setup than the others. The very best climbers - beats me what they need - if I knew that I might climb a lot better than I do :).

Training is also "steepness" dependent. A vertical(ish) but extremely thin climb is very different in the finger strength demands than a super overhanging semi jug haul. The strength Tommy showed in that Dawn Wall traverse video with those
"nearly nothing" holds is quite different than that needed to climb a long overhanging route of the same number grade. Climbing is like weightlifting in one way - strength development is specific to the task.

Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306

As someone already mentioned, it seems likely that the climbers climbing harder grades regularly are more likely to be following a hangboard training program, or at least using one to supliment when climbing regularly is not an option. Those people have more drive to push the grades and are willing to work for it. From my experience, hangboard shows little to no noticeable gains over a short period of time, which I think can be discouraging.

I bouldered indoors as hard as I could 3-4 times a week for my first 6 weeks as a climber and that got me a big increase in contact strength in a rather short time. But it doesn't have the same effect now, so I've switched to hang boarding once a week. Being over 200lbs, it's difficult, but also maybe more neccessary for me to work on that contact strength. It's not fun, it is hard, and it sucks to do when you're already sore or tired. It's working out. Lots of people don't really like working out.

Chris Rice · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 55

Has anyone found any significant differences between the various brands and models? I'd like to buy one for the climbing wall I run and wonder if it matters that much? But seeing as how I won't have to pay for this one, which one would you guys buy - given a choice?

Micah Klesick · · Charlotte, NC · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 3,971

Chris, I would get the Trango Rock Prodigy board. I've used A couple different brands, and the Trango is by far the best IMO. Lots of options, friendly hand positions, great pockets, and the best pinches on any hangboard. As well as the ability to place the two sides where they best fit your wingspan.

kenr · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 16,608
Chris Rice wrote:Has anyone found any significant differences between the various brands and models?
Several very strong + experienced climbers who took the trouble to write books say that a well-chosen piece of hardwood, screwed into a wall or board, is plenty sufficent for training finger strength. Or maybe two pieces of wood of different thicknesses. Could also make smaller variations in edge depth by placing/taping wood or plastic or corrugated-box shims above the piece of wood.

If you buy a fingerboard for a public facility, make sure it has friendly bucket holds on top for doing pull-ups, since that's what more than 90% of the gym climbers will use it for.

Ken
Aleks Zebastian · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 175

Climbing friend,

I have not stopped climbing each week for flash multiple times for years now. I must be going on a 10 day vacation that would not involve the climbing rocks.

What would happen upon my return? Will I become a girly-man with limp, soft arms if I must be forced to do no climbing for a week and a half? Large belly and manbreasts?The peoples say you may come back stronger and heal the injuries nagging if you take this time off, but I think it is an excuse to not try and sit around drinking of the beer and eating of the fritos.

Chris Rice · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 55
Aleks Zebastian wrote:Climbing friend, I have not stopped climbing each week for flash multiple times for years now. I must be going on a 10 day vacation that would not involve the climbing rocks. What would happen upon my return? Will I become a girly-man with limp, soft arms if I must be forced to do no climbing for a week and a half? Large belly and manbreasts?The peoples say you may come back stronger and heal the injuries nagging if you take this time off, but I think it is an excuse to not try and sit around drinking of the beer and eating of the fritos.
Aleks - I envy you living in Boulder and having actual rocks to climb right in your back yard so to speak. Living in Ohio isn't quite the same though and "training" becomes kind of necessary :)
Peter D. · · Fairfield, OH · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 25

As an older climber getting back into the sport from a few years off I found finger strength had decreased as had my overall endurance. Last year I got into a training program which introduced me to ARC training. Based on my experience with that and not feeling my climbing at the gym was specific enough I bought RPTC this fall and installed it on a french cleat to allow adjustments, with pulleys and weights it works great. The workouts are spelled out in the Rock Prodigy Training manual and are far from boring, especially if you have some good tunes going. Then again long trail runs or road rides with no tunes are never boring for me.

I have noticed some gains in the short time I have used the hang board. Varying holds is important to avoid oversue and will provide a greater variance when climbing outdoors. Plus if I'm getting on routes that are crimps I might hit those holds more in between climbing trips. I do need more time in between sessions for recovery, at 58 it takes a lot longer. At the same time I began this program my work increased exponentially with a new job. As a manual physical therapist my hands and arms get taxed at work so this has added a new element into my training that has to be accomodated.

As others have said, ID your weaknesses and your climbing goals, for myself I want to see how far I can get beyond the levelI was at when I took time off. Adding hang boarding into the mix seems to be addressing one more element in the whole process.

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

Well, there is a use for the fingerboard that no one wants to talk about. Finger injury rehab :-)
ukclimbing.com/articles/pag…

My board has not seen much use for the last 10 years. Mainly because I have been climbing in the gym and didn't want to get injured by over training. But I am using it now. The Anderson brothers are right focus on one thing at the time. Either train or climb.

PS
There are a lot of people with short attention span on this website. The workout takes only takes 10 to 20 mins of actual time on the hangboard and 30 to warmup. That is less time it takes me to climb one pitch or drink a 6 pack

5.samadhi Süñyātá · · asheville · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 40

did anybody else keep reading thread JUST to read Aleks' responses.

Fucking awesome :)

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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