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only assisted braking devices allowed in gyms?

Mr. Wonderful · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 10

Dang. Must be that time of the month again. Odd how these grigri arguments are getting sync'd up with my menstrual cycle.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

I only believe stuff on the internet when it is posted by people with names synonymous with bestiality.

Brian · · North Kingstown, RI · Joined Sep 2001 · Points: 804
Jim Titt wrote: This is also bollocks, the Jul2 and MegaJul are certified as manual braking devices. They would never pass the test to be certified as a manual assisted locking device. The GriGri does.
Bollocks! Love that word. You can call it anything you want. I know that if my 220 pound friend takes a lead fall the MegaJul catches him "automatically" with no hands needed. (Of course, not that you should try this.) Rock and Ice in a review said, "I know companies today shy away from the word “auto-locking” but Mega Jul certainly does a great job of braking a fall with very little effort...The Mega Jul is the lightest, most versatile and best-performing all-around belay device I’ve ever used—once you get comfortable with it." So I guess other people have had a different experience with it than you. We have had this discussion before. I get it you don't like the MegaJul.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
Miike wrote:I only believe stuff on the internet when it is posted by people with names synonymous with bestiality.
why u gullible little boy ...

;)
M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
Brian wrote: Bollocks! Love that word. You can call it anything you want. I know that if my 220 pound friend takes a lead fall the MegaJul catches him "automatically" with no hands needed. (Of course, not that you should try this.) Rock and Ice in a review said, "I know companies today shy away from the word “auto-locking” but Mega Jul certainly does a great job of braking a fall with very little effort...The Mega Jul is the lightest, most versatile and best-performing all-around belay device I’ve ever used—once you get comfortable with it." So I guess other people have had a different experience with it than you. We have had this discussion before. I get it you don't like the MegaJul.
doesnt sound like a soft catch bro, r u sure its safe?
PRRose · · Boulder · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 0
20 kN wrote: That's not true. It depends on the state. Every state has different laws. Some states say you have a duty to warn of an "attractive nuisance" of sorts. So like if you have an empty pool in your backyard and some kids come in and skate in it and get injured, their attorney could argue you had a duty to keep the dangerous area fenced off. In the case of a climbing cliff, an attorney could argue you had a duty to warn via signs that you could fall off a cliff. It all depends on the state.
The attractive nuisance doctrine applies to artificial hazards, so it does not impose a duty to warn a trespassing child of the danger of falling off of a natural cliff.
Eric LaRoche · · West Swanzey, NH · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 25

And trespassing is still trespassing.

Kirby Crider · · DC · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 25
Tim Lutz wrote: source please
Ditto. Sounds like utter nonsense to me.
20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
PRRose wrote: The attractive nuisance doctrine applies to artificial hazards, so it does not impose a duty to warn a trespassing child of the danger of falling off of a natural cliff.
Yes, not via an attractive nuisance law, but possibly via other state laws an attorney could argue of a duty to warn, especially if you openly allowed the person to climb on your land. Again, it all depends on the state and how many dollars you have to spend on your attorney.
Pavel Burov · · Russia · Joined May 2013 · Points: 50

Climbing gyms are not designed to learn people how to climb. Climbing gym are designed to earn money. It is OK to restrict climbing gym members to use particular climbing or belaying techniques - climbing gyms are not something about climbing, they are something about money.

Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Brian wrote: I know that if my 220 pound friend takes a lead fall the MegaJul catches him "automatically" with no hands needed.
Your friend has more faith than me, I watched an Edelrid rep demonstrate this and the sand sack hit the floor with a satisfying thud. And it will still never pass the certification test.
Khoi · · Vancouver, BC · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 45
bearbreeder wrote:Quick aside: In Germany (where Edelrid is based) rock gyms now require all climbers to use brake-assist devices to help prevent belaying accidents. Canadian gyms are taking this policy on as well, and this is why you’ll find many American gym climbs pre-equipped with GriGri’s. blog.weighmyrack.com/edelri… ;)
Which Canadian gyms?
Greg D · · Here · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 883
Kirby wrote: Ditto. Sounds like utter nonsense to me.
Well, you'll have to do you own research, and come to your own conclusions. I'm not gonna do it for you. Its quite easy to find several people dropped on gri gris in the last several months. Let me know if you can do the same on any one tube device, let alone all of them combined. Factor in user days on various devices and the results are even more evident. But, some people tend to believe what they want to believe no matter what. YMMV.
Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Frank Stein · · Albuquerque, NM · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 205

These are the first 10 belay accidents that my "research" found...I know that it is not statistically valid, but it does illustrate the first 10 results of actual belay accidents query on Google.

Auto belay-3
Standard tube-2
ATC Guide-1
Figure 8-1
Lowered off end of rope-1
Trango Cinch-1
Gri-Gri-1

Somehow doing "my own research" does not yield results that demonstrate that the vast majority of accidents occur on a Gri Gri as some suggest. I have been dropped twice (without injury), and both were on an ATC.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
bearbreeder wrote:Quick aside: In Germany (where Edelrid is based) rock gyms now require all climbers to use brake-assist devices to help prevent belaying accidents. Canadian gyms are taking this policy on as well, and this is why you’ll find many American gym climbs pre-equipped with GriGri’s. blog.weighmyrack.com/edelri… ;)
That's not what it says on that page. The quote is:
"Quick aside: The world’s largest climbing association, the German Alpine Club (DAV) has conducted climbing gym studies that found belaying with a brake-assist device is much safer in terms of number of belaying errors found during use. This has caused a debate to teach only assisted locking devices on beginner’s courses.

Taking initiative on preventing belaying accidents, there are single gyms in Germany, where Edelrid is based, that sell more brake-assist Mega Jul’s than the entire US market. Similarly, some Canadian gyms are only allowing the use of brake-assist devices for belaying. And this is why you’ll find many American gym climbs pre-equipped with GriGri’s."

Nothing in there about all gyms in Germany requiring climbers to use brake-assisted devices.
Xam · · Boulder, Co · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 76
Marc801 wrote: That's not what it says on that page. The quote is: "Quick aside: The world’s largest climbing association, the German Alpine Club (DAV) has conducted climbing gym studies that found belaying with a brake-assist device is much safer in terms of number of belaying errors found during use. This has caused a debate to teach only assisted locking devices on beginner’s courses. Taking initiative on preventing belaying accidents, there are single gyms in Germany, where Edelrid is based, that sell more brake-assist Mega Jul’s than the entire US market. Similarly, some Canadian gyms are only allowing the use of brake-assist devices for belaying. And this is why you’ll find many American gym climbs pre-equipped with GriGri’s." Nothing in there about all gyms in Germany requiring climbers to use brake-assisted devices.
Look in the comments on that page...the author changed the copy since beerbreader made his original post.
Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Xam wrote: Look in the comments on that page...the author changed the copy since beerbreader made his original post.
Yup, another worthless website that writes crap then changes it WITHOUT putting a note to the effect that the previous version was either poorly researched or written distorting the facts to suit the authors agenda.
Bearbreeders copy and paste tells the truth about what they wrote and we all read.
Spadout used to do the same sloppy rubbish and have since gone off to ethernet zombie-land.
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
Jim Titt wrote: Yup, another worthless website that writes crap then changes it WITHOUT putting a note to the effect that the previous version was either poorly researched or written distorting the facts to suit the authors agenda. Bearbreeders copy and paste tells the truth about what they wrote and we all read. Spadout used to do the same sloppy rubbish and have since gone off to ethernet zombie-land.
if you look its basically the marketing mouthpiece of manufacturers IMO ...

thats the way many popular blogs have become ... its a cheap and easy way for the brands to get a "real" review out

when was the last time on these blogs where you saw a bad review ... it rarely happens ...

;)
M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

I gave up giving bad reviews for anything, it always get erased or edited. that restaurant/business website called Yelp is the worst, complete rubbish!

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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