Bd C4's prices getting raised?

Did I miss the memo or are the Black Diamond C4's retailing from $65-125 now? Up $5....

It is my understanding that BD is shifting their production back to the USA. As such, the there is a slight price increase. I think this is great on multiple fronts.

Right on.... Good for them and for us! Based on their reliability and quality I thought the price change would have happened long ago.

I'd pay $5 more for anything made in the US, assuming the quality is there.

+1 for 'merica. (if this is true)

Just called BD retail store and chatted with one of the guys over there and he confirmed that they are bringing the entire production line back to the US. They're all really excited bring one of their flagship products home and getting good ole' Americans jobs.
Bravo BD!

Noticed the price hike at REI recently

I am all for quality but I really dislike the concept that we should reward or punish companies because they are favorable towards one group of people over another.

If it truly is a quality control issue then thumbs up but I would argue that just because something is made foreign(be it china or elsewhere) doesn't mean it is lower quality. In fact I am sure that many products made in the USA are inferior to those made in china, now in some cases maybe even the majority of USA products may be better but inferring the quality purely from manufacture location is nonsense.

Imagine if it was phrased differently, I am going to make ensure that I only buy products made by this one racial group/culture since they inherently do things better. Ridiculous.

I am confident BD could make things reliable in both china and the US but for the marketing value or maybe the cost of putting design and manufacturing in different timezones I could see them making this change. I don't like that the marketing value is there though.

I think it's out of support of jobs in the country. It's patriotic, bordering on nationalist, but it's definitely not racist or anything of along those lines

SinRopa wrote: Can you provide a source for this info? Their website doesn't mention any changes to their production concept, and I couldn't find anything online about it either...everything I read was about them expanding their production facility in China.

BD announced it last year in their stockholder report. They plan to bring more than just cams back for domestic production.

Matt.Zia wrote: For me it's not a question of reliability or quality, it's a question of where my money is going. I'd rather keep things relatively local and support workers who are members of my community than send my money overseas. Nationalistic? Absolutely. I think that on a personal level (as opposed to an international view) though it makes sense and is absolutely a reasonable point of view. Even if you had free shipping both ways, would you rather get your car fixed by a mechanic in your town or by an equally good mechanic in China? Not to mention the shipping cost, economically and environmentally of moving goods across the ocean. My understanding of the previous BD manufacturing is that they forged a fair number of parts in the US, then shipped them to China to get anodized, then the final product was shipped back.

The US has had a trade deficit since the early 80's so your money is going overseas whether you know it or not.

Interesting topic.. regarding US trade, that is.

Depends on how you look at it. I think it's a dubious claim. If GM has a manufacturing plant in Mexico and ships a few million car parts to be assembled in that GM-owned plant in Mexico and then ships them back to another GM-owned plant in the US.. that's not really trade in the conventional use of the term. It sounds like this parallels BD's business practices according to what I'm reading on this thread.

Perhaps this shift to US-made cams explains recent sale prices, e.g., the 25% off C4 deals abound?

Being in favor of outsourced labor in China essentially equates to supporting slave labor. Not that it doesn't exist pretty much everywhere (save maybe a few exceptional countries), but you can't argue that labor laws and working conditions are vastly better here.

Brad Gone wrote:Interesting topic.. regarding US trade, that is. Depends on how you look at it. I think it's a dubious claim. If GM has a manufacturing plant in Mexico and ships a few million car parts to be assembled in that GM-owned plant in Mexico and then ships them back to another GM-owned plant in the US.. that's not really trade in the conventional use of the term. It sounds like this parallels BD's business practices according to what I'm reading on this thread. Perhaps this shift to US-made cams explains recent sale prices, e.g., the 25% off C4 deals abound? Being in favor of outsourced labor in China essentially equates to supporting slave labor. Not that it doesn't exist pretty much everywhere (save maybe a few exceptional countries), but you can't argue that labor laws and working conditions are vastly better here.

aren't vastly better here.*

BD can make all the stuff they want in the US - won't be long until china dominates the world anyways.... imho.

Brad Gone wrote:Being in favor of outsourced labor in China essentially equates to supporting slave labor. Not that it doesn't exist pretty much everywhere (save maybe a few exceptional countries), but you can't argue that labor laws and working conditions are vastly better here.

Chinese labor isn't as cheap as it once was. BD doesn't outsource its labor in China, like any company concerned with QC, they own the plant and house\employ their labor force.

BD isn't altruistic, this is a cost issue...either labor or tariffs.

Ray Pinpillage wrote: Chinese labor isn't as cheap as it once was. BD doesn't outsource its labor in China, like any company concerned with QC, they own the plant and house\employ their labor force. BD isn't altruistic, this is a cost issue...either labor or tariffs.

I believe it. I also don't doubt their QC. Nonetheless, I support their decision to shift production back to the US.

jTaylor, Why do you say that?

Matt.Zia wrote: So you're saying it doesn't matter? I think the choices we make as consumers absolutely do matter. Maybe BD moving their production back to the US, or me choosing to buy product A instead of product B because A is made in the US doesn't matter as far as international policy goes. But I think it matters for my personal values and it sure as hell matters for the guy down the street who has a job again because of it. Don't get me wrong, it's definitely a business move by BD. But I think that we should at least give a little support to a company that's putting jobs back in the US.

It does matter and I'd rather buy products made by my fellow countrymen. Your money is already going overseas though so capital flow isn't a very valid reason.

If you really want to stem the tide of offshore labor and importation of finished goods from China you'll promote the development of uniformed labor standards in China. As China, or any other country for that matter, develops into an industrialized country, education and labor standards increase the price of labor.

Bill M wrote:jTaylor, Why do you say that?

They just work harder than us, plain and simple. And there is so many people in China, that the competition naturally pushes them that much more. At this point, I feel like we depend on them possibly more than they depend on us. Although - i'm really talking out my ass, it's not like I major in this kind of stuff or anything, just making a semi ignorant guess so it'd be nice if I was completely wrong.

I did listen to an NPR podcast (radio lab i think it was) that was explaining how even though there is Squid (or was it fish?) that is caught right outside (within 500 yards) of a restaurant in Santa Barbara CA, it is still going to by flown over to China, cleaned there (because it is cheaper), then served up at the restaurant since it would still be most costly to clean locally rather than flying it over there first. That story alone really showed me personally how dependent we are on them, even for the most basic things.

keithconn wrote:I'd pay $5 more for anything made in the US, assuming the quality is there.

me too, I'm glad i've held out on buying new cams for so long. Good on BD for seeing the light(if true).

I feel better knowing that my old cams were made by folks in SLC that actually use the tools they make and not some Chinese kid who doesnt even know what they are making. I care more about this then the economic factors in play. Try buying a pair of shoes made in the USA, its not easy. Half of the online retailers dont even want to fess up on where their products are made anymore, have a look.

jTaylor wrote: They just work harder than us, plain and simple

. Chinese manufacturers work harder at making things "look the part" but the majority of their products fall miserably short when it comes to function. Visit any harbor freight tool store for prime examples.

jTaylor wrote:And there is so many people in China, that the competition naturally pushes them that much more. At this point, I feel like we depend on them possibly more than they depend on us.

I think they're dependant on the fact that 'mericans love bargain shopping and think they are actually getting a better deal by paying less for an inferior product. No need for brainstorming sessions there.

jTaylor wrote:Although - i'm really talking out my ass, it's not like I major in this kind of stuff or anything, just making a semi ignorant guess so it'd be nice if I was completely wrong.

Your flatulence leaves us with food for thought.

jTaylor wrote:I did listen to an NPR podcast (radio lab i think it was) that was explaining how even though there is Squid (or was it fish?) that is caught right outside (within 500 yards) of a restaurant in Santa Barbara CA, it is still going to by flown over to China, cleaned there (because it is cheaper), then served up at the restaurant since it would still be most costly to clean locally rather than flying it over there first. That story alone really showed me personally how dependent we are on them, even for the most basic things.

Here's a 10 year old article about shipping fish to China for processing.
seattletimes.com/html/busin…
I doubt anything has changed with the exception of lower wages to the workers since the workforce has grown in 10 years.