Two Way Radio

Having trouble communicating is common among inexperienced.
Wanting radios among inexperienced is common.
Climbers with radios is common among inexperienced.

Some things to consider:

If you are doing rope stretchers with an inexperienced follower and you didn't plan on it and you didn't tell them what to do, radios are not the answer. Poor planning by the more "experienced" leader was the problem. Radios are not the solution.

If you are seeing storm clouds and need to bail, what are you going to do after you tell you partner via radio that you wouldn't have to do anyway?

If you are a full rope length out and try 7 tugs or 700 tugs and are unsuccessful, you have failed to do it properly. Again inexperience. The further you are from your belayer, and more rope drag requires exponentially greater tugs. Think "shouting" through the rope. Like trying to start a very old lawn mower. Very vigorous, sharp tugs are necessary the further you are from you belayer.

So, when your batteries die or you drop your radio, but you haven't developed basic communication or logistic understandings, you will be much worse off then if you had no radios at all.

Good luck.

Radios have their place. They won't and can't replace skill; but they can give you additional options. Like buying a basline toyota or a fully loaded escalade. They both get you there, but one's got more critter comforts and people will disapprove of it.

You're unlikely to have transmit/receive issues within a rope length, so all that about trying to solve those issues is kinda moot. It sure is nice to get something that isn't bargain basement, with sub channels, and with VOX (voice activated transmit) so you can use it hands-free. I clip mine at my shirt collar, which can be a little uncomfortable, but works well. Saves a lot of unnecessary yelling when wandering around out of sight in uncharted territory. We still have a standing rule that lacking all other communication, after a few minutes of solid tension on the rope, the belayer will allow the rope through to the end without taking off belay until actually all pulled through, then clean the anchor and follow.

YMMV.

Radios are nice and if they were free and weighed nothing I would use them all day. But they are not free and they can be quite heavy relative to other gear. That's fine if I am out for a cruiser route. But if I want to climb hard, I like to go light, so it's an unnecessary weight penalty.

The application where I think they would be the most useful would be for speed climbing where you are linking pitches constantly, and the second wants to get moving ASAP. But in that application weight is even more important so you are kind of back to the original problem.

Scott Scharfenberg wrote:Don't think too hard about two-way radios. Get something inexpensive, just make sure it has sub-channels. That way when you're on a serious aid line in the Valley and all the normal channels are clogged with tourist chatter you can still communicate with your belayer. My friends and I use these.

Can't comment on Ham radios, but back when our kids were little we used the Motorola Talkabouts to communicate on roadtrips. Whoever was watching the kids in camp could call for backup or relief from the climbing party if needed. Handy for convoys too- otherwise we always got seperated.

Seems to me, if you have a climbing gf in Minnesota who will likes multipitch climbs and goes to JTree with you and all she wants are radios, you'd be crazy not to get radios. Leave them at home maybe when you and your buds climb the north face of the Eiger.

But to make your sweetie happy? That's just seems like a no brainer.

I also have a HAM license (KC9RFG), but have never used radios while actively climbing. Remember, you can only use a HAM if you are licensed. Your climbing partner would have to get a License as well. The FCC takes it very seriously, big fines if reported/caught.

That being said, i have a Baofeng uv3 and uv5, and they are very reliable. I use a combination of them with my Yaesu vehicle mounted radios when Jeeping and working Rally America races.

We also use the FRS radios for various activities, and even the very inexpensive Motorola units would be more than adequate for the distances encountered during climbing activities, and no licenses needed. My whole family climbs (me, wife, and four sons), so we use them to keep in touch while hiking in/scouting out climbs, etc...

Try text message or whatsapp.

In seriousness, I've carried a couple of radios and found 99.8% one of the two following outcomes:

1) I carried them and didn't need them because communication was easier than expected.

2) I forgot them and resorted to rope tugs and intuition to stay alive.

The other .2% of the time they came in handy (which works out to once)

At this point it looks like ham is the way to go. Either the rugged and tiny Yaesu vx3 or the slightly larger but more powerful and cheaper baofeng uv-5rtp (3 power modes up to 8 watts and case is now metal). Leaning towards the baofeng for the low cost and high power. Yaesu vx3 is only 1-1.5 watts.

And yes she will get ham licensed. For the other two guys on the upcoming trip if I'm climbing with one of them I'll use a mix of yelling and nonverbal communication. I've always been anti radio but she's pretty adamant, and I like nerdy things like ham radio anyway. Also she's really quiet even yelling so the radio may be necessary like 15 ft out with her if it's windy :P

Why not cheap FM radios? HAM, and the requisite licensing seems excessive. Is there some kind of line of sight issue with FM radios?

If the radios are for roped use, I really wouldn't sweat TX power. You'll never be more than 70 meters away from her! My 4W UV-5R and 5W FT-60R both have a range of several miles.

Not that you won't be happy with the UV-5RTP, but I think powerwise anything 1W+ will be more than fine.

Rich Bergstrom wrote:Why not cheap FM radios? HAM, and the requisite licensing seems excessive. Is there some kind of line of sight issue with FM radios?

FM? Or do you mean FRS/GMRS?

From the sound of it both Pontoon & his girlfriend have an interest in nerdy things like ham, which is a perfectly good reason to go get your ham license. KJ6OOX, reporting :)

Radios can be pretty handy if an accident happens. We were climbing at Seneca Rocks last summer when a lady fell. One of the guides walked by - assessed the situation and got on his radio. Every guide (and their clients) in the area dropped everything and came to help (they just bailed leaving ropes and gear all in place). What could have taken all day with the few people there at the time was handled quickly and professionally by them. I have since given some thought to my stance on radios - and have purchased a pair for my wife and I. The entire group of people that I regularly climb with have also bought them for this reason. They are handy once in a while on a climb but that quarter of a pound of weight might save someones life. Weather you actually climb with them or not - they can be handy.

Pontoon wrote:patrick-shyvers, thanks for the advice. I can afford the vx3. To me I would rather learn ham and pay more if the radio works better. I was reading on other forums of people tossing their FRS radios because they didn't work well. Is there any way to help make a ham radio deal with line of sight issues better (different antenna, higher power model, etc)?

I've had a "Yahoo" FT-11R, and my license, for a few decades. You'll find that all the amateur radios to be of a far higher quality than FRS, and the frequencies uncrowded even in crowded situations. Don't even bother with FRS.

At 70m, line-of-sight isn't a concern, even at the lowest power setting (.5w) and rubber duck. I don't care how many corners you go around. With the power-save mode, the batteries will last all day with the radio on.

I agree with most here that you don't need a radio for climbing signals, but if you do get one (two), get the simplest one with lots of keys so there's less "shifting" to get to the functions you want. It must have a lit keyboard for evening. Small is nice, mine fits in a shirt pocket. Used is cheaper. Make sure you can "modify" it to transmit outside the Ham bands for emergencies.

ADVANTAGES: I backcountry ski a lot in an area without cell coverage. But there is (usually is on Government lands) a radio repeater used by Forest rangers, law enforcement, etc. In an emergency I can talk directly to my rescuers. When I climb in a National Park, I can talk directly to the Park rangers if necessary.

If you do get radios, get some that let you turn off the bleep that happens at every transmission.

Kent Richards wrote:If you do get radios, get some that let you turn off the bleep that happens at every transmission.

Are you talking about squelch tail?

Patrick Shyvers wrote: Are you talking about squelch tail?

I think he's talking about the beep that FRS radios, cell-phones in "radio" mode and other rinky-dink-radio-wannabes generate to remind the moron to take his finger off the PTT. ;-)

Patrick Shyvers wrote:Are you talking about squelch tail?

John Byrnes wrote:I think he's talking about the beep that FRS radios, cell-phones in "radio" mode and other rinky-dink-radio-wannabes generate to remind the moron to take his finger off the PTT. ;-)

Talking about the "feature" that beeps. I thought it happens after the release of the transmit button, but maybe not.

It could be a squelch tail elimination feature, but I can't imagine squelch tail being more annoying than that beep:

"The squelch tail occurs when the transmission has just ended and the radio circuitry doesn't respond quite fast enough. This is remedied by systems like STE or Squelch Tail Elimination by Motorola"

How does one quote on MP? Edit: Obviously, I figured it out :-)

Kent Richards wrote: Talking about the "feature" that beeps. I thought it happens after the release of the transmit button, but maybe not.

I think it's modeled after the Star Trek communicators' noises ;-) The most annoying ones beep when you press the PTT, and after you let go. The beep-talk-beep pattern is supposed to remind you to release the PTT.

Kent Richards wrote: It could be a squelch tail elimination feature, but I can't imagine squelch tail being more annoying than that beep:

Nah, the squelch-tail on a modern radio is short and quiet.

There is imho a time n place for two way radios , I seldom use mine except in situations where I know before hand I'll need them for the convenience , rope tugs are nice if they can be deciphered
And I've been climbing where it was hard to distinguish them and yelling was a moot point . So in thoes situations my radios are part of my kit . Otherwise they stay home .

Frankly I'd rather see everyone with a radio then endure the endless screaming back n forth between confused climber and belayer . But I totally understand where the non radio users are coming from too. I've converted a few die hards simply by example in the situations where I needed my radios for ease of communication between myself and my partner .

Mine are overkill no doubt , two Kenwood TH-F6 tri banders , but there small, easy to pack and hang
Off a harness or in a pocket . I've rigged mine with a girth hitched short sling that can be clipped to a carabiner and it provides enough slack to talk n drop when they are hanging off a button hole in my shirt / jacket or suspenders .

As for the GMRS type radios there ok for short distances but sadly there going the way of the CB , over crowded. If you squelch it out too much you run the risk of not hearing your partner .

If you have to have the power then there is a license free frequency I believe it's in the 2m band where your allowed to use it license free . One of the serious hams on here can give ya a heads up on it I'm sure . maybe I'm wrong ? But I thought there is one nationl license free frequency , find a local " Elmer " and ask . There also a good source of knowledge on what might be your best bet in radios .

Just be advised that a hand held ham radio has lots of bells n whistles that you'll be paying for and proably never ever use and one innocent push of a button can send ya off freq, end of coms.

Boefang would proably be your cheapest bet with fair quality , a simple pair of 2m's could be had for a little more then a hundred . 2M or 440M , your choice . I really never saw the difference in performance and I used to use UHF(440m) radio telephone before cellular . I found I could always hit a repeater no matter how deep in the canyons or woods of Oregon I was .

Also I believe everyone is referring to the so called " roger" beep , and yes all radios have the capability to turn it off. I've never heard one sound while the ptt is depressed only when released .but I've never played much with gmrs radios ether . Check your manual