Replacing 8.0mm doubles: Mammut Genesis or Phoenix?

which rope?

is the Phoenix as durable as the Genesis?
Is the weight penalty of the Genesis worth it?

I'd probably go Phoenix, but I always hear rave reviews on the Genesis, hence the indecision.

My current 8.0mm's have held up well, I like the weight. I dislike the thinness when I'm being belayed on lead (or rappelling), though we fixed a lot of this with a modern Reverso and double belay biners.

The Genesis is a workhorse. The Phoenix more of a racehorse. If you really need the weight advantage, get the Phoenix, but don't expect it to last as long. I also think there are more tangling issues with an 8 than an 8.5, but that could just be me.

I've retired (from age) two pair of Genesis ropes - both are still almost like new and would probably still be fine to climb with. Tough Ropes. Not experience with the 8s.

The phoenix works fine, i own a pair

It wont last as long as the genesis so if ur prime purpose is cragging or yr second will be hangdogging lot get the thicker ropes

For regular long moderate multi use theyll last just fine

;)

For rock & alpine routes with common rockfall: Genesis
For ice & snowy alpine with less chance of rockfall: Phoenix

Both are excellent ropes, last a long time, and have excellent coatings, can't go wrong with either.

I've had a pair of Phoenixes that have seen several weeks in the Bugaboos, many snow/ice/rock routes in the Cascades, and occasional Sierra climbs (i.e. those for which doubles are warranted). They haven't held many falls, but have been dragged over lots of rock and rapped on plenty, and they're still going strong. Unless you plan on cragging with them on abrasive stone (I'm thinking JTree), I suspect the Phoenixes will treat you well.

I've had both, the genesis are seriously durable, you'll be wondering why you're retiring it after many years of use.
I'm on my second season with the Phoenix, climbed both rock and ice with them. They fuzz a bit, like all ropes, so I should have dedicated them more for ice for the first couple years. They're great ropes, the genesis would have been overkill for me.
I also have a 9.5x70m Infinity for the cragging / top-roping / sport.

The Sterling 8.4mm Duettos are also nice and long lasting.

The deciding factor between the two for me was that my wife belays me and I'm a bigger guy - the 8.0 diameter is a little harder to catch with - and of course is a faster rapell. I just found the 8.5 mm size suited me and my needs better. One of my regular climbing partners uses a different model 8.0 rope that is super slick - I hate them. I know how to add friction etc but would rather not have to bother.

Thanks for the info.

Everything I've read says you absolutely cannot go wrong with the Genesis. Looks like I might have to eat the weight penalty.

J. Serpico wrote:Everything I've read says you absolutely cannot go wrong with the Genesis. Looks like I might have to eat the weight penalty.

You won't regret it.

JL

Anyone have experience with the Beal 8.6 Cobras vs the Genesis? In the past I had a pair of 9mm halves as my work horse ropes and 7.8 twins so I'm looking for mid 8mm work horses. Perhaps even the new Beal Opera?

Thanks

I ended up going with the Phoenix, $260 for the set, shipped. Money talks when you are on the fence and if they last me 3 full years I'll be thrilled. My current set (Lanex/Tendon) had about 3 full years of use but were 7 years old. So even though they looked fairly new, they were probably pushing the safety evelope as far as impact force/fall rating on vertical terrain. I'm still using them for low angle ice/mountaineering for another season or two.

I'll post a report after next rock season as to how they hold up. But the dry coating is top notch out of the box. Were perfectly dry after a day of use. My old Lanex/Tendon ropes definitely never had as nice a coating, even day one. Other than that, I highly recommend Lanex/Tendon ropes for durability and handling. Everyone liked those ropes and they saw a lot of use on rock in the Gunks.

Thanks for the advice.

Where did you end up buying them from?

Arin wrote:Where did you end up buying them from?

Well, I dragged ass and ended up having to buy them from separate places.

GearX (a site sponsor) had them forever. But when I pulled the trigger only sand was left. 129$ tax and (for me) next day shipping for the 70m sand (aka. blue).

I got the dark orange (aka. red) from backcountry gear. They were $148, shipped, but I figured I could find a coupon. left it in my cart for a week, got an email for 5% off my cart, and when I clicked it the ropes were onsale for $139...so $132 shipped.

I could have got the 8.2mm Edelweiss 8.2mm (probably ideal compromise diameter) a few months ago for $240 for both ropes, and that was a great deal. I've had good results with Edelweiss over the years, but Mammut seems to be excellent as well.

J. Serpico wrote: Well, I dragged ass and ended up having to buy them from separate places. GearX (a site sponsor) had them forever. But when I pulled the trigger only sand was left. 129$ tax and (for me) next day shipping for the 70m sand (aka. blue). I got the dark orange (aka. red) from backcountry gear. They were $148, shipped, but I figured I could find a coupon. left it in my cart for a week, got an email for 5% off my cart, and when I clicked it the ropes were onsale for $139...so $132 shipped. I could have got the 8.2mm Edelweiss 8.2mm (probably ideal compromise diameter) a few months ago for $240 for both ropes, and that was a great deal. I've had good results with Edelweiss over the years, but Mammut seems to be excellent as well.

Thx man

mattm wrote:Anyone have experience with the Beal 8.6 Cobras vs the Genesis? In the past I had a pair of 9mm halves as my work horse ropes and 7.8 twins so I'm looking for mid 8mm work horses. Perhaps even the new Beal Opera? Thanks

Hey Matt, a regular partner of mine in Vegas for the tall stuff had a set of the Cobras. I've got the Genesis halves. Both phenomenal. Both exceptionally durable. The Beals have a bit softer (more supple) hand than the Mammuts--they are not as stiff. I am a huge fan of the hard-wearing Mammut ropes (I own several models of singles) and would generally not consider buying a Beal rope. Using my friend's changed my mind.

Also, they feel basically the same size.