Rocky Prodigy results for the moderate climber?

Mark and Mike's book has been available for about a year now, so I'm curious how the Rock Prodigy template has worked out for the normal people of MP.

It's cool that it helped Jonathan Siegrist crush...
Trainer to the JStars

...but I want to know about the "moderate climbers" who are trying to get past their plateau at 5.9, 5.10, or 5.11:
What gains did you see?
What challenges did you encounter?
Other insights, observations, modifications?

B-rad

Jake,
This is all great information! Thanks for all the details.

You say no "clean redpoints". So you gave projecting on some goal routes a go at the end of the program?

Although "how to project" is probably best for another thread, this mindset is new for me. I've been had my sights set on alpine goals for a while, and pushing sport climbing grades is a very new concept.

I imagine a lot of the normal people trying the Anderson plan are also new to this.

"I think the number one thing that specific, structured training did for me at an intermediate level, is show me, in no uncertain terms, the pre-existing weaknesses in my climbing- weaknesses that could not be fixed by specific finger-centric training. That was the big takeaway for me."

Awesome!

I think I'm the typical climber that I doesn't have a clue what I'm truly weak at; only what I like and don't like. It will be good to assess the learning that happened at the end of this process.

The exception to this is finger strength. I have a history of finger tweaks, and as a result limestone has never been my friend.

I'm in the middle of the Strength Phase (novice hangboarding). I started out very conservative, have seen excellent gains while remaining pain free.

It was really helpful good to hear about your experience on the campus rings, too, This is coming up on my cycle. Pretty sure I'll be looking for tips to modify to prevent injury yet still realize some power gains.

my training program is based on the RP program, but with a few tweaks to customize it to my strengths/weaknesses/projects/work_schedule/etc. last year i sent my first couple 12d's and my first couple 13a's. i also sent 9 12c's, which was equal to the number i had sent cumulative in my entire 25 year career.

i'm definitely happy with the results.

B-rad wrote:Mark and Mike's book has been available for about a year now, so I'm curious how the Rock Prodigy template has worked out for the normal people of MP. It's cool that it helped Jonathan Siegrist crush... Trainer to the JStars ...but I want to know about the "moderate climbers" who are trying to get past their plateau at 5.9, 5.10, or 5.11: What gains did you see? What challenges did you encounter? Other insights, observations, modifications? B-rad

I'm in the same boat - I've been trying to get solid at easy 5.10 on trad for the last few years. This winter i decided i was going to do some dedicated finger training on the hangboard and increase finger strength. I'll do what i can with the other stuff - but after the first two HB workouts I'm amazed at how weak i am.

I have to take 30+ pounds off to use the pinches on the Trango board. I'm taking 25+ lbs off on all the other holds!

tks wrote:I have to take 30+ pounds off to use the pinches on the Trango board.

Taking 30lbs off doesn't even get me close to hanging on those pinches! Nice work tks!

Jake Jones wrote: I realized that I would probably be better served in my first season to abandon the campus board and focus on power via bouldering. Bouldering will train power, for sure, but it will not isolate power like a campus board will. For me this was a good thing, because as I said, I needed much more work in my climbing overall- movement, flexibility, core strength, technique, etc.

I have a feeling I'll be taking a similar approach and scale back the campusing when this phase appears in a couple weeks. I'll let you know how it goes. In the meantime, it's a push to gain finger strength.

Thanks for posting up Jake (and the rest). This has been helpful.

Works super well for me. Went from only ever having climbed one 12a to have redpointed ~7 12s up to 12c and onsighting multiple 12a s after one season. Also didn't get any injuries!

Plus I lost 300 lbs, fixed my marriage, and now make $50 an hour just by surfing the internet!

Jake Jones wrote: ... Your level is a bit above the intermediate though, I think.

ha ha, you've never seen me try to boulder in the gym.... the little bumblebee girl from the old blind mellon video 'no rain' can lay the hurt to me in there.

Will add the applause of the method!

Stuck at 5.10 for years. Now working sport 12s and not afraid to try trad 11s (many have gone on OS or RP). On track to do trad 5.12 in the near future with the ultimate goal being a 5.13 trad route some time in 2017.

It works!

@Jake Jones: I think your post is something that should be read and re-read by every climber that's still relatively new as in been climbing for < 3+ yrs.

Connective tissue takes a long time to strengthen compared to muscles. Peeps just gotta learn patience. Take it slow, and listen to your body. That being said, seasoned climbers can get a LOT out of the Training Manual. They can push harder - longer, and invoke a greater response from their bodies without risking injury.

Some people do get lucky, though. I just depends on the individual. On 4/16/2015 I will have been climbing for 3 years. 2014 was my strongest year. I got my hardest onsight (5.11d) at the NRG, and had a v5 v6 v5 v5 v4 day at Coopers Rocks WVA. I didn't really get a chance to tick any hard RPs due to a new addition to the family, but I was rocking 5.12+ sport and v7 in the gym.

In September I tore my 4th lumbrical (a muscle) in my left hand. I took 6 weeks off and it knocked me down to hard 5.11s and v5s. I used the basic fitness phase and some light hang boarding from the Training Manual to rehab my hand back into a usable shape. Once I could hold most holds again (which came around November) I dove right into 6 weeks of the strength training phase. From there I took a few sessions to just climb leisurely, and now I'm two weeks into the power phase.

I don't really have a bunch of routes or problems to that really demonstrate my improvement yet, but my hand is 100% again and I'm definitely stronger than what I was before the injury. -- Note: I don't get on many routes now since the only time I have in the gym I spend working through the Training Manual. I did, however, send a 12b & 12c on the second go of each the other week. Yesterday, I flashed all of the v5s and v6s that were just put up and took down the FA of a v7 on my 4th attempt. I also linked all the moves on a new v8, which should go down my next hard boulder session (Sunday).

I'm SUPER psyched to work through the next period. I'm definitely a believer in the manual and have a ton of faith and respect for the fellas that authored it. They definitely know their sh*t.

Really, I wouldn't be surprised if I could get to 13+ or harder by next fall... we'll see.

Huge +1 for The Rock Climbers Training Manual.

My ambition was to become the best climber and I never did. I think that goal was a wrong goal. A better one is to put more emphasis on enjoyment and on getting a rounded experience and on things like friendship, rather than on sheer achievement.

Royal Robbins

Passive Aggression wrote:My ambition was to become the best climber and I never did. I think that goal was a wrong goal. A better one is to put more emphasis on enjoyment and on getting a rounded experience and on things like friendship, rather than on sheer achievement. Royal Robbins

People climb for different reasons, and training to become a better/stronger climber and enjoying the experience/friendship/camaraderie need not be mutually exclusive. I happen to agree with the message behind Royal's quote, but completely disagree with your quoting him in response to the OP's question.

B-rad: I've been a "social" climber for 10 years and had definitely plateaued. I've been blessed with some genetic gifts, along with an appetite for pizza and beer, weak and tweaky finger tendons, and a frame that isn't exactly climber-friendly. About 3 years ago, I started climbing more consistently, yet I maxed out on 9's on gear, easy 11's on bolts, and V3's.

I bought the RP book and started the program, but modified it for a more casual approach, which fits my lifestyle and schedule. Mainly, I'm hitting the hangboard with 100% intensity and I do a lot of ARC'ing, since finger strength and endurance are my weak spots. I'm not quite strong enough to utilize the campus board, but I do a little PE work. One could argue that I'm not really following the program at all, but I credit the book for getting me off my ass and actually starting some training, and I hope to adopt the full training plan, eventually.

I'm enjoying climbing more than ever, and to counter the previous quote, my partner and I are having a blast pushing each other. If you enjoy training for and achieving goals, I am certain you will like it, whatever grade you're currently at.

In the ~4 months since I've started training, I've seen an impressive (for me) improvement across all disciplines. During this time, most of my climbing has been indoors and I am anxious to get out on real rock this spring, to hopefully set some new personal bests. I'm expecting to see a full number grade increase on lead, and hopefully 2 V-grades. As someone who sat stagnant for years and years at the same level, that is mind-blowing to me. The time I spend climbing and training is really not much different than before, about 2 days/week. I just spend the time differently (more efficiently). Oh, and I eat less pizza.

Again, I'm not following the plan strictly, which would have been very challenging for me. I'm not prepared to dedicate that much time to training, just yet. If you're the same, take solace in the fact that you will still see some real improvement, maybe just not as fast.

TL;DR: Since starting systematic training, I haven't ticked off my hardest routes yet, but I've come close and feel like I'm able to climb much harder, consistently.

Background:
I've been climbing since for about 7 years. For a while, I mostly bouldered, but have been focused more on sport climbing in the past couple years. I've never lived 1 burn on, and even fewer that I've put in >1 day on. In general, I could onsight or quickly send many 5.11s, and I'd ticked a couple of 5.12as.

Training Plan:
I've just finished my 2nd cycle of the Anderson bros' periodized program, and I've followed the plan relatively strictly. I didn't pinpoint any glaring weaknesses -- that is, I found plenty of weakness across all categories! I have lost ~15 lbs. since starting my first cycle, and that has definitely helped. One area that I haven't followed closely is supplemental exercises -- my adherence to that routine has been much less strict, and something I'll need to think about for future cycles, as I think there are serious benefits that I need to weigh against time considerations.

Results:
Overall, I'm very happy with the results. On paper, though, they're not that impressive. I haven't improved my max redpoint grade at all. Maybe I'm just rationalizing, but I think this is mostly a result of me still having the onsighting/touring mentality, and not really trying to redpoint a hard route yet. So on the one hand, I don't have any big successes to tout that clearly illustrate how beneficial training has been. However, the reason I'm happy with the results is that there are a number of 'minor' successes that I think are a direct result of the training:

1) On a trip to a new crag during my 1st 'performance peak', I was able to put in multiple days trying and making progress on a bunch of 5.12s. Although I didn't send my hardest route, or even really tick anything, I don't think I'd ever done such a concentrated stretch of hard climbing before, and it was very satisfying to feel like I had a chance and wasn't just flailing after pumping out on my first attempt of the day.

2) I've come pretty darn close to onsighting a couple 12bs. A first try one-hang isn't as exciting as a send, and I still haven't been back to the crag to tick them off. But given that I've still never even redpointed a 12b, I was pretty happy to come close to the onsight. Both routes were long, sustained and overhanging, too. Active resting was something I never really could do before, so I think the training definitely has helped with that.

3) I've had good results in the gym. I'm hesitant to post about results in the gym because... it's the gym... but it's useful as a benchmark since (for better or worse) it's where I climb most consistently. In my most recent PE phase, I flashed a couple routes at a grade that I hadn't redpointed before. Was satisfying to get a personal best, even in the plastic world. Figure it's only a matter of time before it translates to rock now :)

Conclusion:
I'm 100% going to stick with the training. I consider myself fairly patient, and willing to take the long-term improvement view. Given how sporadic my outdoor climbing is, I don't feel like I'm really sacrificing anything, and I'm encouraged by my results after my first couple cycles. I want to be better at including supplemental exercises in future cycles, and also build in more outdoor climbing into my power and PE phases. Will be psyched to report back after a few more cycles and see where I'm at!