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Adding anchors at Rumbling Bald

Drew Hayes · · Charlotte, NC · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 110

If the bolt is within arms reach of another route that sounds too close. Can you clip it from the other route?

I know I'm a little late on the initial topic, but for Drivin and Cryin you can just climb up to the Bear Cub tree, top belay, and rap down there. I haven't done Fine Line but I'm glad to hear the walkoff is easy. I'll have to get on that one next time I'm out there.

Brad Caldwell · · Deep in the Jocassee Gorges · Joined May 2010 · Points: 1,400

If there was a group consensus that these bolts were unnecessary, why would anyone place them anyway? Doesn't take but 2 brain cells to rub together to figure out it's a bad idea and there would be repercussions.

Tom Caldwell · · Clemson, S.C. · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 3,623

Sorry guys, apparently he isn't going to listen to a bunch of elitists like us. Him and his friends think those shiny anchors (that only serve his climb) should stay. I guess retrobolting is okay if your friends like it, especially when it is chain with lots of quicklinks.

As far as the protection bolt goes, yes, I did walk up the third class and place a piece in that horizontal above the bolt in my sneakers. You can get a solid #1 and .5 camalot.

Note to anyone climbing on that buttress, a wrench is now part of the gear beta.

BigCountry · · The High Country · Joined May 2012 · Points: 20

So what's up Tom. Did the bolts get pulled and replaced? Does this crew that likes these bolts climb other places we should be aware of? Like they got names so if I see them in the HC I'll know. Always available to come visit the bald with some tools. Let me know

Tom Caldwell · · Clemson, S.C. · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 3,623

His name is Pat T. He is the only one that responded to my original inquiry about those bolts on page two of this thread. The hangers were removed, but he says he will just replace, because of the aforementioned reasons of him and his friends liking them. He refuses to make any other argument for why they should stay. It is unclear if the protection bolt will be replaced, but the anchor is a yes from him. He is willing to potentially jeopardize access by bringing the park into this retro bolt nonsense. A note to everyone, any property left at the cliff, like bolts is abandoned and no longer belongs to said bolter. He gets all over, but HC is a little further. I can only hope this whole situation acts as a deterrent to him and future retro bolters. If you need a drill to climb in NC, then you are in the wrong place.

Edward Medina · · Ridgway, CO · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 1,061

Tom,
Can you forward his email address to the CCC and the area rep for Rumbling Bald? Perhaps a courteous email from the board will convince him that he is in the wrong.

Brian Payst · · Carrboro,NC · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 10

Tom - you can contact Mike or Jon, they already have a heads-up about this. All the NC state parks have a no new fixed anchors policy unless the superintendent approves exceptions. As you point out, by adding bolts here this person creates potential access issues for everyone. Getting him to understand that might be something the CCC can help with.

Chris Massey · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 5

A lot of time is spent on MP discussing ethics. Just for the record, I share Tom's ethical position on this topic. By all rights these bolts are not in line with the traditional style of the crag and should have never been placed. I will defer to the ethics of the guy with a wrench and crowbar to decide whether or not they should be chopped (they probably should). I recall reading a post a year or so ago about a 5.easy rap bolted line over on the Cereal Wall. Something about rap bolting and it sharing the line of an existing route. Should the wrench and crowbar be taken down there as well? A guy by the name of Ken Nichols went all over New England a few years ago chopping every bolt in sight because they were not in line with his ethics. Here is a news flash, everyone does not share the same ethics, and some people are not ethical. To me the bigger issue is access. If these bolts were placed outside of the parameters of the State Park bolting plan then they should not have been placed and should be chopped immediately. Access is something we should all take seriously. If you dont think climbing in State Parks can be taken away then ask the folks in CT and Hawaii. By and large our community has to self police and I think we do a pretty good job with it. I guess my biggest disapointment here is that the bolter does not seem to care what the community at large thinks, nor does he seem to respect the traditional style that is generally accepted at this crag for establishing routes, and in doing so has done something that set a precedent that in the future could threaten access. Now I am mostly basing these conclusions on what Tom has shared. I think we would all welcome the bolters point of view should he care to share it.

Mike R · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 2,768

I spoke with Pat who placed the anchors today. Great guy and seems in tune with what makes NC a great place to climb just as the rest of us hopefully are. He also sees the blunder and is planning on removing the bolts and patching. As noted above by Brian P., the state park currently has a "no fixed anchor" policy without express permission from them. The park has reached out to the CCC for feedback if fixed anchor inquiries do arise. Pat was unaware of this no fixed anchor policy. In regards to this forum I personally believe it is best to check with an FA party before placing fixed anchors on a route even if it is in an area where bolting is permitted. If there is not a known FA party, it is wise to consult the community via a forum like this or use the CCC site.
Ron F. set a great precedent a few years back on the CCC page stating his plans to add a few routes to Laurel Knob but snapped many images and got feedback before placing any fixed anchors. I am not saying everyone should do that for every piece of steel in a rock but it is an example of a forum working for the greater benefit.

Mark O'Neal · · Nicholson, GA · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 3,323
Mike Reardon wrote:Pat was unaware of this no fixed anchor policy.
I looked around this morning to see if I could easily find any references to the no fixed anchor policy at RB. I couldn't find anything on MP, on the CCC site, or in Mike's new book. In fairness, Mike's book does mention that there may be a management plan in the future. I'm guessing the book went to print before the plan went into effect?

I'm sure the information is out there, but my point is it that it could be easier to find.
Brian Payst · · Carrboro,NC · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 10

Since the state park owns that policy, it's on their web site
ncparks.gov/Visit/rules/doc…

Has been in place for quite some time. This is one of the roles the CCC plays - we work with the parks that have climbing to figure out fixed anchors, etc. thanks to many years of work, those relationships are excellent right now. Which is why stupid stuff like adding unnecessary anchors bugs me.

Mike R · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 2,768

Mark; "Rumbling Bald Rock Climbs" states you may want to check with the state park. Everything was and is in flux so we were not very specific in the book. Thanks!

Brian E · · Western North Carolina · Joined Mar 2005 · Points: 348

I'm just curious, of all the people that put their two cents in on this debate, who's a CCC member? Just for the record, I am. If you are too then you should be proud. If not... what are you contributing to the cause?

saxfiend · · Decatur, GA · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 4,221
Be Esperanza wrote:I'm just curious, of all the people that put their two cents in on this debate, who's a CCC member? Just for the record, I am. If you are too then you should be proud. If not... what are you contributing to the cause?
Much as I like the CCC, I feel like I have to point out that implying people don't have a right to express an opinion unless they're contributing to your organization is maybe not the best way to win friends and influence people.

JL
Chris Massey · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 5

I too am a member of the CCC and very proud of that organization and what they do for climbing in the southeast. They are not however the offical sanctioning body for everything climbing in the Carolinas, nor do I hope that they claim to be. If you read the State Park plan it states that new fixed hardware requests should be made to the Park Superintendent (not to or through the CCC). I wonder how the park would respond if Joe Citizen approached them about placing new anchors or replacing existing ones? I know the CCC really has the relationship, one that have have worked hard on and one that is really solid. Think they would work directly with the individual or go through the CCC? My guess is the latter...

Mike R · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 2,768

Chris;
The CCC and the park has had the exact conversation you outlined within the last year.
The fixed anchor inquiry would likely go to the park superintendent (JL) and he would then contact a CCC board member to get input. As the land owners, they would always have the final say but they rely on the CCC as the go to voice of the community. The CCC board could then ask the community "is__________ needed?", then could report back to the State Park. This process is currently only hypothetical since it has not occurred to date. In no way does the CCC board (myself included) want to be the bolting police. Our role in the game is that we serve as the voice between land owners and the climbing public.

Tom Caldwell · · Clemson, S.C. · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 3,623
Be Esperanza wrote:I'm just curious, of all the people that put their two cents in on this debate, who's a CCC member? Just for the record, I am. If you are too then you should be proud. If not... what are you contributing to the cause?
I think there is more to it than just being a member. I believe you have to had sampled much of what the area has to offer. The climbs at the Bald and other places in NC are like a blueprint. The more of the blueprint you see the easier it is to make assertions about the standards of the area. If you only climb 5.9 or a few climbs here and there, you haven't even seen half of what is on the blueprints. I couldn't imagine walking into a meeting with a contractor only knowing half the plans if I was the architect. Armed with that knowledge, one is able to see where the real problems are and the community is likely to agree with.

Even though I don't always agree with how the CCC prioritizes moneys and efforts, I still donate to be a member and all of the special fundraisers. They are a great coalition that everyone should be proud of their efforts. More important than donating money to be a member is donating time. This is where the true appreciation of an area comes from. I still enjoy walking up the steps to TR, seeing the east side trail of RB, the quick descent into LK, and many other locally sponsored improvements. I believe it should be every locals priority to do at least one trail day or some other duty related to climbing per year.
Brad Caldwell · · Deep in the Jocassee Gorges · Joined May 2010 · Points: 1,400

I for one appreciate Tom's zest for climbing and for keeping it what it should be in the areas he cares about...and that's the thing, he's passionate because he truly CARES for these places and crags. Tom and I don't always agree (note that we have the same last name but are not related, so it isn't over blood), but its never because he's simply trying to be a douchebag or has his own agenda. If he disagrees, he has a rooted reason why and can support his feelings objectively with rational explanations. Tom has helped out with several trail days that I've helped with and has always been willing to volunteer for the local community in many facets.

If anyone hasn't helped out at a local trail day, you really don't know what you are missing! The thoughts of working on your day off doesn't sound that fun, but when you get there and realize how much fun it is to help out the areas you love and use, while meeting a bunch of like minded fellow climbers, it all starts to come into focus. This is one of the best ways to meet those that are truly dedicated to an area, find some new partners for future endeavors, and find out about traditions/"ethics" you might not be aware of or have a full grasp on.

Thanks for what you do Tom and thanks to the CCC for being there to manage these situations and make sure we all come out smelling like roses to the powers that be!!!

shannon stegg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 0

Hey Sean, did I miss the memo about how now, its okay, to bolt through blank overhanging rock to top out a new route?

saxfiend · · Decatur, GA · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 4,221
shannon stegg wrote:Hey Sean, did I miss the memo about how now, its okay, to bolt through blank overhanging rock to top out a new route?
Keep grinding that axe, Shannon, should be sharp enough to shave with by now.

JL
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Southern States
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