Adding anchors at Rumbling Bald
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If the bolt is within arms reach of another route that sounds too close. Can you clip it from the other route? |
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If there was a group consensus that these bolts were unnecessary, why would anyone place them anyway? Doesn't take but 2 brain cells to rub together to figure out it's a bad idea and there would be repercussions. |
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Sorry guys, apparently he isn't going to listen to a bunch of elitists like us. Him and his friends think those shiny anchors (that only serve his climb) should stay. I guess retrobolting is okay if your friends like it, especially when it is chain with lots of quicklinks. |
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So what's up Tom. Did the bolts get pulled and replaced? Does this crew that likes these bolts climb other places we should be aware of? Like they got names so if I see them in the HC I'll know. Always available to come visit the bald with some tools. Let me know |
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His name is Pat T. He is the only one that responded to my original inquiry about those bolts on page two of this thread. The hangers were removed, but he says he will just replace, because of the aforementioned reasons of him and his friends liking them. He refuses to make any other argument for why they should stay. It is unclear if the protection bolt will be replaced, but the anchor is a yes from him. He is willing to potentially jeopardize access by bringing the park into this retro bolt nonsense. A note to everyone, any property left at the cliff, like bolts is abandoned and no longer belongs to said bolter. He gets all over, but HC is a little further. I can only hope this whole situation acts as a deterrent to him and future retro bolters. If you need a drill to climb in NC, then you are in the wrong place. |
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Tom, |
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Tom - you can contact Mike or Jon, they already have a heads-up about this. All the NC state parks have a no new fixed anchors policy unless the superintendent approves exceptions. As you point out, by adding bolts here this person creates potential access issues for everyone. Getting him to understand that might be something the CCC can help with. |
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A lot of time is spent on MP discussing ethics. Just for the record, I share Tom's ethical position on this topic. By all rights these bolts are not in line with the traditional style of the crag and should have never been placed. I will defer to the ethics of the guy with a wrench and crowbar to decide whether or not they should be chopped (they probably should). I recall reading a post a year or so ago about a 5.easy rap bolted line over on the Cereal Wall. Something about rap bolting and it sharing the line of an existing route. Should the wrench and crowbar be taken down there as well? A guy by the name of Ken Nichols went all over New England a few years ago chopping every bolt in sight because they were not in line with his ethics. Here is a news flash, everyone does not share the same ethics, and some people are not ethical. To me the bigger issue is access. If these bolts were placed outside of the parameters of the State Park bolting plan then they should not have been placed and should be chopped immediately. Access is something we should all take seriously. If you dont think climbing in State Parks can be taken away then ask the folks in CT and Hawaii. By and large our community has to self police and I think we do a pretty good job with it. I guess my biggest disapointment here is that the bolter does not seem to care what the community at large thinks, nor does he seem to respect the traditional style that is generally accepted at this crag for establishing routes, and in doing so has done something that set a precedent that in the future could threaten access. Now I am mostly basing these conclusions on what Tom has shared. I think we would all welcome the bolters point of view should he care to share it. |
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I spoke with Pat who placed the anchors today. Great guy and seems in tune with what makes NC a great place to climb just as the rest of us hopefully are. He also sees the blunder and is planning on removing the bolts and patching. As noted above by Brian P., the state park currently has a "no fixed anchor" policy without express permission from them. The park has reached out to the CCC for feedback if fixed anchor inquiries do arise. Pat was unaware of this no fixed anchor policy. In regards to this forum I personally believe it is best to check with an FA party before placing fixed anchors on a route even if it is in an area where bolting is permitted. If there is not a known FA party, it is wise to consult the community via a forum like this or use the CCC site. |
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Mike Reardon wrote:Pat was unaware of this no fixed anchor policy.I looked around this morning to see if I could easily find any references to the no fixed anchor policy at RB. I couldn't find anything on MP, on the CCC site, or in Mike's new book. In fairness, Mike's book does mention that there may be a management plan in the future. I'm guessing the book went to print before the plan went into effect? I'm sure the information is out there, but my point is it that it could be easier to find. |
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Since the state park owns that policy, it's on their web site |
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Mark; "Rumbling Bald Rock Climbs" states you may want to check with the state park. Everything was and is in flux so we were not very specific in the book. Thanks! |
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I'm just curious, of all the people that put their two cents in on this debate, who's a CCC member? Just for the record, I am. If you are too then you should be proud. If not... what are you contributing to the cause? |
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Be Esperanza wrote:I'm just curious, of all the people that put their two cents in on this debate, who's a CCC member? Just for the record, I am. If you are too then you should be proud. If not... what are you contributing to the cause?Much as I like the CCC, I feel like I have to point out that implying people don't have a right to express an opinion unless they're contributing to your organization is maybe not the best way to win friends and influence people. JL |
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I too am a member of the CCC and very proud of that organization and what they do for climbing in the southeast. They are not however the offical sanctioning body for everything climbing in the Carolinas, nor do I hope that they claim to be. If you read the State Park plan it states that new fixed hardware requests should be made to the Park Superintendent (not to or through the CCC). I wonder how the park would respond if Joe Citizen approached them about placing new anchors or replacing existing ones? I know the CCC really has the relationship, one that have have worked hard on and one that is really solid. Think they would work directly with the individual or go through the CCC? My guess is the latter... |
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Chris; |
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Be Esperanza wrote:I'm just curious, of all the people that put their two cents in on this debate, who's a CCC member? Just for the record, I am. If you are too then you should be proud. If not... what are you contributing to the cause?I think there is more to it than just being a member. I believe you have to had sampled much of what the area has to offer. The climbs at the Bald and other places in NC are like a blueprint. The more of the blueprint you see the easier it is to make assertions about the standards of the area. If you only climb 5.9 or a few climbs here and there, you haven't even seen half of what is on the blueprints. I couldn't imagine walking into a meeting with a contractor only knowing half the plans if I was the architect. Armed with that knowledge, one is able to see where the real problems are and the community is likely to agree with. Even though I don't always agree with how the CCC prioritizes moneys and efforts, I still donate to be a member and all of the special fundraisers. They are a great coalition that everyone should be proud of their efforts. More important than donating money to be a member is donating time. This is where the true appreciation of an area comes from. I still enjoy walking up the steps to TR, seeing the east side trail of RB, the quick descent into LK, and many other locally sponsored improvements. I believe it should be every locals priority to do at least one trail day or some other duty related to climbing per year. |
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I for one appreciate Tom's zest for climbing and for keeping it what it should be in the areas he cares about...and that's the thing, he's passionate because he truly CARES for these places and crags. Tom and I don't always agree (note that we have the same last name but are not related, so it isn't over blood), but its never because he's simply trying to be a douchebag or has his own agenda. If he disagrees, he has a rooted reason why and can support his feelings objectively with rational explanations. Tom has helped out with several trail days that I've helped with and has always been willing to volunteer for the local community in many facets. |
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Hey Sean, did I miss the memo about how now, its okay, to bolt through blank overhanging rock to top out a new route? |
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shannon stegg wrote:Hey Sean, did I miss the memo about how now, its okay, to bolt through blank overhanging rock to top out a new route?Keep grinding that axe, Shannon, should be sharp enough to shave with by now. JL |