Is a bolt ladder C0 or A0?

A source as authoritative and none other than "Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills" defines A0/C0 as an occasional move of aid or French free for upward progress, but generally the climb is free. A1/C1 is "real aid climbing" as they define it, Locker.

Ours is A1, Locker (I guess, since bolts aren't clean. For us it was A1, for every other party it is C1F, with our non-clean gear left fixed).

A0 is probably essentially unused these days, by this definition. Hammering a pin for a single move? Yeah, right. I guess maybe it'd be more likely with a hand-drilled bolt or hammered pin to move past a blank section in the Himalaya or something.

C0 is French Free, and what I'll do when the free climb starts to scare me too much: yard on the cam! :-)

But using aid ladders and full on aid climbing is called A1 or C1, depending upon if it is clean aid or not, assuming all of the pieces can hold a fall.

I don't know if the terms are used this way in practice, but I'm pretty sure that's how M:FotH defined them. My reading comprehension skills are pretty good.

This thread is B0 ;-)

I always thought A0 was simply taking a rest on ones gear. A1 was pulling on said gear to get past that annoying 12d spot.

But what did I know back then?

Adam Stackhouse wrote:I always thought A0 was simply taking a rest on ones gear. A1 was pulling on said gear to get past that annoying 12d spot. But what did I know back then?

Trust me Locker, this boy knows his BO....

What if I could push the bolts into the rock without a hammer, would that then be C0 because it is hammerless, or would it be A4/5 because what I'm climbing could hardly be called rock?

This is like aid climbing zen koans.

No, they are not, and I'm totally willing to say the Fish guy wrong. ;-)

If we say a bolt ladder is A0, then we lose the ability to easily describe a climb that is almost all free, but may have an impossibly blank section were most people yard on something to pass it.

• That *is A0, and it's a very usefully definition to have. M:FotH gets this one right.

“A0 or C0. No aiders are required. Fixed gear such as bolts may be in place, or the climber may be able to simply pull on a piece of gear to get through the section, a technique sometimes called “French free.”

Excerpt From: Eng, Ron. “Mountaineering: The Freedom of the Hills.” The Mountaineers Books, 2010. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

This is in Appendix A: Rating Systems in both my current iBook edition and my older paperback edition.

Check out this book on the iBooks Store: itun.es/us/3ZRvA.l

That's 2010, not that old.

Note: NO AIDERS ARE REQUIRED. I'd like to see someone climb what we put up without aiders.

“A1 or C1. Good aid placements; virtually every placement is capable of holding a fall. Aiders are generally required.”

Excerpt From: Eng, Ron. “Mountaineering: The Freedom of the Hills.” The Mountaineers Books, 2010. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

Check out this book on the iBooks Store: itun.es/us/3ZRvA.l

I like this definition, and it's certainly the one I'll be using.

Russ has been doing this for ages, and if he says people call bolt ladders A0, I'm sure they do.

I'm just saying apparently there is another way to call them, and I like that other way better. ;-)

Yep, that's exactly it, by my way of thinking, Locker.

Now, I'm a novice aid climber, so I'm NOT saying people actually use the definition in M:tFoH.

But I AM saying their system is logically consistent and it is the system I do, will, and would use.

A0 is not *really* aid climbing. It doesn't involve aid climbing techniques. It's just using gear of some kind to surmount a hard section. That is NOT the kind of aid we have bolted at all. Frickin' Caldwell and Jorgensen would have a hard time climbing what we put up without the use of aiders.

A1 IS aid climbing. It is easy aid, yes, but it involves aiders and all of the concomitant aid techniques. We most definitely put up aid climbs. Thus, they are A1 by this very logical (and authoritative) definition.

But Russ is right: who cares? We should just go climb...