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Is a bolt ladder C0 or A0?

Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349
"In all my years of climbing I've never heard anyone use the term C0.

The correct term is French Free."


C0/A0 = "French Free"?

Help me to understand that one please...

???
Jim Titt · · Germany · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 490
Locker wrote:"In all my years of climbing I've never heard anyone use the term C0. The correct term is French Free." C0/A0 = "French Free"? Help me to understand that one please... ???
It´s the (condescending) expression us Euro´s use to describe grabbing any fixed gear and yarding on it. The French used to regard it as part of "free climbing" as opposed to completely nailing a route.
Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349

Jim,

that I am aware of. What I was wondering is how the person that made the comment that C0 = "French Free" came to the conclusion he did.

Is it the use of aiders where he is equating the two? As if the aiders are used to "Pull on" a piece?

To me "French Free" = reaching up with my hand, grabbing a piece/draw, and pulling on it to move upward. I don't see that as the same thing as using aiders.

???

teece303 · · Highlands Ranch, CO · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 596

A source as authoritative and none other than "Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills" defines A0/C0 as an occasional move of aid or French free for upward progress, but generally the climb is free. A1/C1 is "real aid climbing" as they define it, Locker.

Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349

Teece,

Ours = A0, A1, C0 or C1?

Not that it changes a damned thing of course...

They WERE A0 and now they're C0?

A1 = C1?

What? Huh?

teece303 · · Highlands Ranch, CO · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 596

Ours is A1, Locker (I guess, since bolts aren't clean. For us it was A1, for every other party it is C1F, with our non-clean gear left fixed).

A0 is probably essentially unused these days, by this definition. Hammering a pin for a single move? Yeah, right. I guess maybe it'd be more likely with a hand-drilled bolt or hammered pin to move past a blank section in the Himalaya or something.

C0 is French Free, and what I'll do when the free climb starts to scare me too much: yard on the cam! :-)

But using aid ladders and full on aid climbing is called A1 or C1, depending upon if it is clean aid or not, assuming all of the pieces can hold a fall.

I don't know if the terms are used this way in practice, but I'm pretty sure that's how M:FotH defined them. My reading comprehension skills are pretty good.

MJW · · Boise, ID · Joined Mar 2008 · Points: 20

This thread is B0 ;-)

Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349

Crap! I posted ours wrong then. (the others as well)

Corrections eventually.

EDITED:

"assuming all of the pieces can hold a fall."

The way some of those MoFo's went in, I'd say there could be a bit of a small problem there.

DON'T FALL ON OUR BOLTS!

THEY'RE NO GOOD!

"Yer for sure GONNA die!!!"...

LMAO!

Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349
"This thread is B0".

LOL!
Adam Stackhouse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 13,970

I always thought A0 was simply taking a rest on ones gear. A1 was pulling on said gear to get past that annoying 12d spot.

But what did I know back then?

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276
Adam Stackhouse wrote:I always thought A0 was simply taking a rest on ones gear. A1 was pulling on said gear to get past that annoying 12d spot. But what did I know back then?
A0= yarding on bolts

A1= yarding on gear you've placed
Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349
"I always thought A0 was simply taking a rest on ones gear."

Dude above already called that one.

It's B0.

In Europe it's referred to as BS...

;-)
Adam Stackhouse · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 13,970

Trust me Locker, this boy knows his BO....

Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349

Fucking A Adam...

That's good to know!

LOfuckingL!

:-)

Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349

Good enough for me.

Teece, our routes are A0.

EJN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 248

What if I could push the bolts into the rock without a hammer, would that then be C0 because it is hammerless, or would it be A4/5 because what I'm climbing could hardly be called rock?

This is like aid climbing zen koans.

teece303 · · Highlands Ranch, CO · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 596

No, they are not, and I'm totally willing to say the Fish guy wrong. ;-)

teece303 · · Highlands Ranch, CO · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 596

If we say a bolt ladder is A0, then we lose the ability to easily describe a climb that is almost all free, but may have an impossibly blank section were most people yard on something to pass it.

  • That *is A0, and it's a very usefully definition to have. M:FotH gets this one right.

A bolt ladder is full on aid climbing, which is A1 where all the pieces would hold a fall. A "cam ladder" or "pin ladder" or "chock ladder" is also A1 or C1.
Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349

Teece,

I am going with Russ' explanation (In an email, not posted here) as to what A0 represents and have the sneaking suspicion that he is correct.

Definitions change and you mentioned that you have been referencing an older publication.

teece303 · · Highlands Ranch, CO · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 596

“A0 or C0. No aiders are required. Fixed gear such as bolts may be in place, or the climber may be able to simply pull on a piece of gear to get through the section, a technique sometimes called “French free.”

Excerpt From: Eng, Ron. “Mountaineering: The Freedom of the Hills.” The Mountaineers Books, 2010. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

This is in Appendix A: Rating Systems in both my current iBook edition and my older paperback edition.

Check out this book on the iBooks Store: itun.es/us/3ZRvA.l

That's 2010, not that old.

Note: NO AIDERS ARE REQUIRED. I'd like to see someone climb what we put up without aiders.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Big Wall and Aid Climbing
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