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roped solo lead with fall arrest device?

Original Post
Mr. Wonderful · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 10

Has anyone out there used any of the following fall arrest devices for roped solo leading?

yates rocker (Now ICS rocker)
camp goblin
petzl asap
kong backup

Alan Doak · · boulder, co · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 120

Aid or Free? The difference being that aid climbing allows you to futz with the device a bit.

I've used a GriGri many times for aid self-belay (mostly block climbing where I'm self belaying while my partner is cleaning the previous pitch). I always back it up by tying a loop on the belay_hand side of the climbing rope ~10-15feet from the device, clipping that loop with a locking biner to my harness, and repeating once the knot reaches the device. This does a couple of things:

1) the knot will jam in the device if the grigri fails to lock
2)this prevents a huge loop of rope from hanging on the device and sucking back the slack that you've fed to yourself.
3)On the wild chance that the grigri crossloads/torques the belay biner and causes it to explode, I'm still clipped in short to the climbing rope.

It works well for me, is a device I already own and bring on the wall, and is very nearly as fast as the alternatives.

Mr. Wonderful · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 10
doak wrote:Aid or Free? .
Free.

I am familiar with and have tried all the standard alternatives including grigri, silent partner, etc etc etc.

These devices look like they might be a better alternative because they are described as "self-trailing (hands free) up and down the rope." This suggests that you could use them in the same fashion as an SP or grigri but they would be lighter and more compact than the SP and wouldn't have the safety concerns that doak mentioned with the grigri.
Ian Cavanaugh · · Ketchum, ID · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 620

Stay away from anything with teeth, The Camp Goblin looks like it is meant to be a back up and trailed low which would increase fall distance. also, they are all shown with a TR setup, no are shown to feed rope while on lead. I would only use devices that are designed for leading or a grigri. I personally use a Silent Partner or grigri. They have been the best devices I have used for this application.

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346

I have used the ASAP. It is not a roped solo device. It is a fall arrester for rope access work, and it is designed to be used with a single use energy absorber.

Mr. Wonderful · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 10

No "teeth" on any of these.

This video shows it best.

youtube.com/watch?v=thlKlgr…

Alan Doak · · boulder, co · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 120

I haven't personally seen a goblin, but I watched the video closely and it doesn't seem to me that it would work for leading.

The device freely gives and takes slack when the attachment biner is closer to the rope anchor point, and locks when the attachment biner is pulling away from the rope anchor point (even under just the weight of the biner at 27s in the video).

In a leading scenario, the rope would be anchored at the ground, and the device would be upside down (relative to what was shown in the video). The device would lock whenever you tried to climb or feed slack to yourself.

Ian Cavanaugh · · Ketchum, ID · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 620
Petzl ASAP
Those look like teeth to me...
tradvlad · · SLC, UT · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 5

have you ever looked into using an ATC Guide?

fcorpet.free.fr/Denis/Solo-…

I have used this a few times. It worked ok for me.
Here's what I have learned:

Reading about it online indicates that it doesn't always lock, it will depend on how the fixed line falls onto the device when you take a fall. I have never fallen on it, but did rest a few times.

Around 30 meters up from the down anchor the rope gets too heavy so it's nice to find a ledge and pull your rope up.

Sometimes the weight of the rope will pull the rope through the atc guide, a clove hitch on a peace of pro will fix that.

Alan Doak · · boulder, co · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 120

I'm with 20kn on this one.

Never use a device in a single-point failure critical application that it wasn't designed and certified for.

A grigri isn't certified for lead self belay, so I use backup knots. A micro-traxion isn't certified for TR solo, so I use 2 of them (primary and backup). Ropes, harnesses, belay devices are all certified as non-redundant components, and we're good with that.

Mr. Wonderful · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 10
doak wrote:I haven't personally seen a goblin, but I watched the video closely and it doesn't seem to me that it would work for leading. The device freely gives and takes slack when the attachment biner is closer to the rope anchor point, and locks when the attachment biner is pulling away from the rope anchor point (even under just the weight of the biner at 27s in the video). In a leading scenario, the rope would be anchored at the ground, and the device would be upside down (relative to what was shown in the video). The device would lock whenever you tried to climb or feed slack to yourself.
Thanks. That was the failure analysis that I was missing. Could maybe get around that with a chest harness?
Mr. Wonderful · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 10
Ian Cavanaugh wrote: Those look like teeth to me...
OOPS. Guess I didnt look close enough. Well 3 out of 4.......
BigFeet · · Texas · Joined May 2014 · Points: 385

$$$.$$ + Amazon = Silent Partner

I know you listed bulk, and the price can be a tough one to get over, but for the specific application you are going for why substitute?

Bill C. · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 110

I have used the Kong device before. For a while I worked in a gym and when the wall was closed another employee and I tried it in a top-rope solo scenario on some of our old/junker ropes.

The biggest impression I got is that it is SPOOKY to climb with. It almost feeds TOO well (both up and down) and did not inspire much confidence that it would truly stop a fall. Because of that, it took some guts initially to actually take a leap of faith to test it out. When we did fall, it stopped us, but we probably slid about a foot or so before the cam slammed shut.

I did not personally like it for TR solo for a couple of reasons:

1. There didn't really seem to be a good way to lock up the device like you would with any other ascender or belay device. If you panic-grab the rope either above or below the device, you will fall just fast enough to get rope burn/deck, but not quite fast enough for the device to lock off. Because of this, you cant really "sit" onto the rope, you REALLY have to commit to a full speed fall.

2. It seems pretty orientation dependent for it to lock up. You almost have to use some kind of sling or lanyard/tether so that when you do fall you are "under" the device to pull device's lever down to engage the cam. If you are falling and somehow stay "above" the device (if you are leaning forward and the device is clipped in short to your belay loop for example) you will continue to slide down the rope until you lean back enough for it to catch.

3. You REALLY feel the fall. Even using old dynamic ropes, you are going from a complete free fall to a sudden stop. We would only slide down the rope about a foot or two, but that was all it took to feel the full force when that cam slammed shut.

In the end, it does exactly what it is designed to do: stop emergency falls if for some reason your primary devices fail in an industrial setting. You really should use some kind of shock absorber with it and have another device or foolproof backup method. It should be seen as an airbag more than a seat belt; it MIGHT save your life but it could also wreck you pretty hard in the process.

In my opinion, I would not use it in a recreational setting, but that's just one guy's opinion.

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
Ian Cavanaugh wrote: Those look like teeth to me...
It does have teeth. Very sharp teeth in fact. Pretty sure they took a file to those teeth and sharpened them. I was surprised how sharp they are.
Bill C. · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 110

This might also interest some people:

youtube.com/watch?v=M2a1zdp…

Capt. Impatient · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 0

Silent partner or if you can find them soloist ( discontinued ) requires chest harness but I like mine just a simple ascender.

John Lynch · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2015 · Points: 0

The biggest impression I got is that it is Millers Fall Arrests from Safetydirect.ie to climb with. It almost feeds TOO well (both up and down) and Fill much confidence that it would truly stop a fall. Because of that, Need to took some guts initially to actually take a leap of faith to test it out. When we did fall, it stopped us well.

Ken Carrara · · Holtsville, NY · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 240
Bill C. wrote:I have used the Kong device before. For a while I worked in a gym and when the wall was closed another employee and I tried it in a top-rope solo scenario on some of our old/junker ropes. The biggest impression I got is that it is SPOOKY to climb with. It almost feeds TOO well (both up and down) and did not inspire much confidence that it would truly stop a fall. Because of that, it took some guts initially to actually take a leap of faith to test it out. When we did fall, it stopped us, but we probably slid about a foot or so before the cam slammed shut. I did not personally like it for TR solo for a couple of reasons: 1. There didn't really seem to be a good way to lock up the device like you would with any other ascender or belay device. If you panic-grab the rope either above or below the device, you will fall just fast enough to get rope burn/deck, but not quite fast enough for the device to lock off. Because of this, you cant really "sit" onto the rope, you REALLY have to commit to a full speed fall. 2. It seems pretty orientation dependent for it to lock up. You almost have to use some kind of sling or lanyard/tether so that when you do fall you are "under" the device to pull device's lever down to engage the cam. If you are falling and somehow stay "above" the device (if you are leaning forward and the device is clipped in short to your belay loop for example) you will continue to slide down the rope until you lean back enough for it to catch. 3. You REALLY feel the fall. Even using old dynamic ropes, you are going from a complete free fall to a sudden stop. We would only slide down the rope about a foot or two, but that was all it took to feel the full force when that cam slammed shut. In the end, it does exactly what it is designed to do: stop emergency falls if for some reason your primary devices fail in an industrial setting. You really should use some kind of shock absorber with it and have another device or foolproof backup method. It should be seen as an airbag more than a seat belt; it MIGHT save your life but it could also wreck you pretty hard in the process. In my opinion, I would not use it in a recreational setting, but that's just one guy's opinion.
Which kong are you referring to? the 802 or the duck?
Kevin Mokracek · · Burbank · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 342

Wait for the Wildcountry Revo to come out. That looks like it could be a game changer. Although not a solo device it looks like it would feed better that a Silent Partner with less bulk. Just make sure you still use back up knots.

Mike Gibson · · Payson, AZ · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 0
Kevin Mokracek wrote:Wait for the Wildcountry Revo to come out.
It's going to be a long wait. Latest news is no earlier than Dec 2017. I'd bet on summer 2018.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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