Criticizing Style of Something You Haven't Done?

Passive Aggression wrote:I think that it is not okay to be offended. Being offended is a defensive mechanism that the egoic self uses when it feels threatened. The egoic self is not real and the reactive tendencies it drives are not okay. People can and do get offended but it is not okay and they don't have a right to do it. Consider the effects of the culture of outrage that is prevalent in this country and on this site. It leads to cencorship, that is, it limits our freedom of expresion. It is not okay to limit freedom to comfort feeble minds.

We will agree to disagree on being offended. However, you are quite right that today's society has too delicate a sensetivity towards criticism. PC is the worst fucking thing to happen to discourse in this world. Additionally, the tired use of ad hominium attacks to respond to a divergent viewpoint is just a sign of the responder's lack of an ability to enter into any sort of productive conversation. My favorite conversation is with someone who has politically or socially opposite positions from me, yet the conversation is characterized by intelligent and respectful disagreement, and then going out for a nice beer afterwards.

Passive Aggression wrote:I think that it is not okay to be offended. Being offended is a defensive mechanism that the egoic self uses when it feels threatened. The egoic self is not real and the reactive tendencies it drives are not okay. People can and do get offended but it is not okay and they don't have a right to do it. Consider the effects of the culture of outrage that is prevalent in this country and on this site. It leads to cencorship, that is, it limits our freedom of expresion. It is not okay to limit freedom to comfort feeble minds.

As much as I agree with you, that we are obligated to not get personally involved and to maintain our calm in the face of offensive material, I do think there is something to be said for civil discourse. Most of the time when people are being really rude and wildly offensive it's not because that's inherent to their views, it's because they are trying to get someone else to shut up and go away.
So basically along with everyone growing a pair and being thicker skinned, we should also be more calm and civil in the first place.

Just because one has the right to offend another it does not mean that they should.

I certainly don't criticize headpointing, rehearsing, or any other style utilized on super hard routes. I think it's cool for what it is. That said, I am more amazed by various onsights around the world on hard alpine rock.

Please critique as much as possible especially if you cannot climb the route in question. Maybe some of the criticism will even be entertaining!

I only care what Aleks thinks.

Ladron de Engranajes wrote:Are you saying you have to climb above a certain grade in order to have an opinion about climbing or a particular climb? Probably. The janitor may have an opinion on how to run the Wal-Mart he works at, but doesn't understand the view from the top.

Ok I'll bite.. I disagree. The janitor could have a great idea but what, because he's a janitor you wouldn't listen? That's close minded. Every employee has ideas on how to make their job or others jobs easier, faster etc. The best thing to do in business and climbing is to listen, think about it and decide for yourself what's important. What's a matter? Some fat kid punk you? We don't mean nothing we're cranky when hungry.

Passive Aggression wrote:Just because one has the right to offend another it does not mean that they should.

If you have the right to offend me, don't I have the right to feel offended?

Subtopic 1A, If a n00b spouts and is told to shut his overused pie-eater by someone more experienced, does said n00b have the right to feign offence?

Subtopic 1B, I propose we compile a list of those whose opinion is founded on too few years, too few climbs, and too many twinkies to have a credible opinion. This allows them to make noise but allows the rest of us to ignore them better.

Subtopic 1C, I ignore almost all of you because you are almost all n00bs.
Subtopic 1C.1, I am wrong only on exceedingly rare occasions.

What if we devised a grading chart for climbers (see "Downward Bound" by Harding). I'm sure if we all pitch in we can really improve upon the original concept and update it for todays drama. Like if you only boulder you can't criticize trad climbers. But if you sport climber harder than 5.13 you can talk shit about everyone. Etc...

Wade J. wrote:What if we devised a grading chart for climbers (see "Downward Bound" by Harding). I'm sure if we all pitch in we can really improve upon the original concept and update it for todays drama. Like if you only boulder you can't criticize trad climbers. But if you sport climber harder than 5.13 you can talk shit about everyone. Etc...

Sport climbing 5.13 or harder is the interweb definition of n00b who can't use a grigri. We need something more Zebastionesque, have you flashed a 12+ (cause that is harder than 13a) with diarrhea and no change of pants for the bike ride back to camp?

Or something along those lines.

Nice legs, I'll like to get in on that list. Just don't tell me I'm #1.

Wade, the only problem with that formula is then the ones who run their mouths the most would be silenced. Most of the ones who can won't. Sounds boring.

nicelegs wrote:Subtopic 1A, If a n00b spouts and is told to shut his overused pie-eater by someone more experienced, does said n00b have the right to feign offence? Subtopic 1B, I propose we compile a list of those whose opinion is founded on too few years, too few climbs, and too many twinkies to have a credible opinion. This allows them to make noise but allows the rest of us to ignore them better. Subtopic 1C, I ignore almost all of you because you are almost all n00bs. Subtopic 1C.1, I am wrong only on exceedingly rare occasions.

Nicelegs: I'll say this. You left yourself open here. I started climbing in 1973, so if you started earlier, than you can certainly call me a nOObie. However, if not then well, do I peg you at a 1B, 1C? From your posts, I'll go with 1B, because that seems to fit best. Oh,and please be offended if you wish. But, please take this post with a great deal of mirth and saracasm.

If you saw me sport climb, you'd then be able to call me out for certain.

Cheers!

I nominate Nicelegs to create the chart!

Bill, I see what you're saying. MP would be a pretty boring place. Maybe the admins could make a separate forum, for the boring people. Has anyone been over to rock climbing.com lately? What are they doing?

I have made one of my rare mistakes.

I used n00b, an age sensitive term. I meant to use gumby because as Tradster and so (SO) many other have shown, gumby can be for life.

climber rating system from Downward Bound

nicelegs wrote:... too many twinkies to have a credible opinion

... crap. So much for my opinions.

Patrick Shyvers wrote: ... crap. So much for my opinions.

Come on Patrick, enough with the self deprecation. We're trying to keep things positive here!

Wade J. wrote: Come on Patrick, enough with the self deprecation. We're trying to keep things positive here!

You're right, you're right. Surely I can make up for the twinkies, and regain the moral highground :)

Wade J. wrote:I nominate Nicelegs to create the chart! Bill, I see what you're saying. MP would be a pretty boring place. Maybe the admins could make a separate forum, for the boring people. Has anyone been over to rock climbing.com lately? What are they doing?

There would be threads titled:

Do you mind if I bolt this?

I feel my 5.14D slab FA needs a bolt to avoid a ground fall. What does everyone else think?

Reply: It's totally up to you

How about this:

OMG do you know what I saw today!!!!

I saw a family of marmots while I was running up my favorite (insert 5.12 WI6 M9+ VIi alpine route)after work today. It was beautiful.

Reply: Back in 71 I saw a Eagle fly over on Astroman

Gear discussion?

BD new tools

So I used the new BD fuckos today and they worked really well for thin and hard mixed. The hammer works well for banging in pins. The pick angle feels good anyone else try these?

This post was deleted due rule #1 ( no posting if you suck)