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Petzl Laser and Laser Lites or Black Diamond Express?

Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
Bill Kirby wrote: Thanks for your help, Ray.. A buddy had a great idea!! It looks like the steel teeth weren't pressed on straight. I can't get a pic to show what I'm saying. I can look down the 21 cm and see a half moon lip that overlaps the aluminum tube. The rest of the rack looks good. It doesn't explian the rust but may explain why the screw won't go in the ice. Thoughts?
Stainless rusts, put oil on them.

I think the problem is the material. I thought maybe toOlinger marks but not if they're smooth.
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

Thanks for the update Iceman.

I filled out the form on Petzl's site. There's no number to call. Another reason I rock Cassin/Camp every chance I get.

We shall see what happens. I'll keep you all posted!

Josh Allred · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 161

Grivel Helix.

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

^^^^^

I'll pass.. Don't like the way they rack.

M17 · · New York · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 20
Bill Kirby wrote: Thanks for the update Iceman. I filled out the form on Petzl's site. There's no number to call. Another reason I rock Cassin/Camp every chance I get. We shall see what happens. I'll keep you all posted!
Bill, try 801-926-1500.

I used the Lights for the first time for in Alaska for a month this past spring and then Peru in the summer for 3 months, didn't have one bind in the way described here. I definitely had some excessive resistance turning at times. I had read about it beforehand so I had BD Express screws with me in case and filling out my rack. I can't really deny so many people saying it happens, so perhaps I will soon. I haven't used them since the end of August. I've been using all steel, I don't really bother with the Lights unless it's a big climb. Definitely going to have to take these out and play with them more. I'll take this into consideration when using them.

I just received a bunch more Laser Speeds to potentially replace my BD screws, sure hope I don't have any issue with them. Never had any plating issue with my BD. I'll follow up with with this thread as well.
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
Petzl's definition of rust

Edit: Conrad called me and we discussed everything. He advised that there may be a problem and to send in the screws.
Josh Allred · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 161
Bill Kirby wrote:^^^^^ I'll pass.. Don't like the way they rack.
BUT they do go into the ice. Insert smart ass font.
cms829 · · NJ · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 90

Guess I'm gonna sit back and see how this pans out before buying em. I'll stick with the bd's for now. Tried and true

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

Update

I've been up in the Dacks for a little while messing with these screws some more. This is what I've found..

Petzl's customer service is the jam! Once you prove a little intelligence and experience Petzl will help the best they can. I would say the biggest thing is patience.

The 21 cm I had problems with has worked fine the two times I placed it. The first was on lead, I feared for my life and the second was at an anchor. Both times, no trouble. I'm convinced the screws stick in wet ice. The rest of the rack is still biting well and still working better than BD Express screws.

The coating on the teeth of one of my 13s is still wearing off and turning a dark grey. Nick at the Mountaineer told me to keep an eye on it and he would replace it if the screw becomes a problem. Another reason to buy from a brick and mortar shop.

Overall I'm much happier with the Petzl Laser Speed Lites. Remember I'm no hardman but I think these were a good choice.

Anyone else using these have anything?

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

I understand at this point I sound like a broken record but...

I've been out even more with the rack of Laser Speed Lights and are only having one problem to speak of. The coating on the teeth of two 13 cm screws are turning dark grey. It seems that the finish is wearing off. This isn't affecting performance but I will be keeping an eye on that.

I went out in a snowstorm on Monday and have to say the five screws I placed worked fine, the ski with my wife afterwards was way more fun. I wanted to test out the Laser Speed Lights in a wet snowy environment. I was 0 F so not too much moisture but things worked as usual.

Anyone else still having problems? Mine have seemed to go away at the moment. Anyone experiencing this?

Jon H · · PC, UT · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 118

Aside from the tooth discoloration on a couple of screws, mine are rocking strong. I've noticed that after a couple uses - perhaps 5 days out - that they don't start quite as quickly as they did when brand new.

Brand new, they place faster than anything else I've tried (Express, Radion, Helix, 360). Once they have a bunch of placements under their belt and have been bouncing around on the harness for a couple days each of cragging and alpine use, the razor sharp tooth profile tends to dull ever so slightly. I would say they now are slightly faster to bite than BD, but it's splitting hairs. I prefer the hanger and the knob on Petzl screws, so I'm still overall quite happy with converting my rack to the new Petzl screws.

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

Thanks for the reply Jon! I like the handle of the Laser Speeds and Lites better than others too.

Have you exprienced any of your screws not going in all the way?

Ted Eliason · · Westminster, CO · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 585

So I did what you are never supposed to do this past weekend. I took a lead fall on ice. The one. The only ever in my time leading ice. I had a mixed rack of BD Express screws and Petzl laser speed lights. I was in the process of replacing the BD's with Laser Speed Lights because for me they go in so much faster and easier. But when I fell, the first Speed Light down blew and the BD below it held--which made me think the tips on the Speed Lights may have a great bite, but the threading around the screw isn't aggressive enough. So I'm holding off on full rack replacement and favoring the continued mix of the two screws. My long screw for V-Threads is 100% all the way Laser Speed Light. I'm also going to try to re-sharpen the BD's to see if I can get as good a bite as the new Laser Speed Lights.

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

Say what Ted?? I wanna hear more about this lead fall of yours. How big was the fall? You're sure you placed that Laser Speed Lite in good ice? What size was the Petzl screw? What size was the BD Express you fell on? What route and conditions?

Please let me know as I don't place as many screws as I should.

Ted Eliason · · Westminster, CO · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 585

As much as this post could invite troll behavior about what I should and should not have been climbing, fall was on Rigid Designator in Vail. I rested my weight on a Grivel umbilical while I was getting a screw in near the top when it snapped (which I will also not do again now that I've done more research into their, imo poorly disclosed strength ratings. There was a knot in one of the umbilical tethers and the cord broke just below the knot). Both screws were 13s. Looked like good ice coming out of both screw cores to me at the time. Fall was about 8m/24 feet. Somewhat happy to be standing at the moment.

Jon H · · PC, UT · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 118
Ted Eliason wrote:As much as this post could invite troll behavior about what I should and should not have been climbing,.
It seems like you're already aware what you shouldn't have been climbing. I am curious though - why the heck was there a knot in your umbilical?

For what it's worth, I absolutely agree with your assessment that the threads on the Laser Lights are too shallow. It has been known for years that the strength of an ice screw comes from thread engagement, so I'm honestly quite puzzled why the Laser Lights have such "subtle" threading compared to their steel counterparts (and every other screw on the market). This is of course purely anecdotal, but your fall does seem to lend credence to our mutual concern. On the other hand, the Designator did look pretty beat out on Sunday and it could have been tricky to find nice, dense, clean ice to place screws, so the screw that ripped could have been a fluke.

Was your fall on Saturday or Sunday? I hiked in Sunday AM to do the Dez but got beat to the base by another party, so we went off to do Slabutt/Spiral/Pencil instead.
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

Ted, Thanks for replying! That's an awesome story. Congrats on dodging that bullet.

As far as the trolls go.. Fuck them. They weren't out there.

Jon H · · PC, UT · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 118
Bill Kirby wrote: Thanks for the reply Jon! I like the handle of the Laser Speeds and Lites better than others too. Have you exprienced any of your screws not going in all the way?
I only have one Laser Light in 21cm that I have purely for making V threads. I've played with it a bunch on the ground and drilled two threads with it so far, but never tried to place it on lead. It certainly is "sticky" and sometimes binds, but it has never gotten completely stuck. It just takes some extra muscle, or back it out a revolution, then fire it back in. That usually seems to work. I've never had it freeze completely like Iceman discussed earlier up thread.
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
Jon H wrote: I only have one Laser Light in 21cm that I have purely for making V threads. I've played with it a bunch on the ground and drilled two threads with it so far, but never tried to place it on lead. It certainly is "sticky" and sometimes binds, but it has never gotten completely stuck. It just takes some extra muscle, or back it out a revolution, then fire it back in. That usually seems to work. I've never had it freeze completely like Iceman discussed earlier up thread.
Thanks Jon, appreciate the words as usual! Haha.. I had that one probelm with a V Thread and its it. I'm hoping the issues are behind me now. A couple times though I've been "at my limit" on a cold day and a thought of Fing about with a screw that won't go in has me on edge.. A little.
Sally G. · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 5

I bought 6 of the new laser light screws - I'm only 115 lbs so the weight savings is a big deal to me. I have been using them on pretty cold ice with no problems. Today I was placing them in watery ice and couldn't believe it when they stopped dead after a few turns. I didn't bring up a candela, so tried blowing on the damn thing and even thought of sticking it in my jacket. I was down to my last screw and could really have used one at the exit.
I'm relieved to see that this is becoming a known problem and its not just me. I suppose from now on, if the ice is sticky, best to go with the steel screws. Or bring a blow dryer!
BTW - I got some foam tubing from the plumbing dpt which is the same diameter as the screw (it opens lengthwise). I cut it to the size of the screw, and is really quick to take on and off. There is no need to put a cap on the screw, which allows it to breath a bit. I put them all in a crampon bag, which keeps them all tucked up and safe. Works great.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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