Mountain Project Logo

Petzl Laser and Laser Lites or Black Diamond Express?

Jon H · · PC, UT · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 118

Goddamn it. I've posted a response to this thread twice over 2 days and both times the posting failed and since the text box on MP is non-persistent, I've lost my entire posting.

I give up.

Long story short, I switched my entire rack to petzl as well. I was tired of the BD screws chewing up the thumbs on my gloves. And the petzl screws start faster. The only major con I've found is that the new petzl screws have a pretty poor quality plating. They discolor/corrode if they stay wet for just a couple hours, whereas BD could safely stay in your pack at least a full 24 hours without being damaged.

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492

I noticed a touch of plating was off the very tip of a new (placed maybe 3X) aluminum Petzl screw. Hope this isn't a widespread occurrence.

Jon H · · PC, UT · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 118
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yikes Jon, that's a concern. I'll have take a look at the one I bought a couple weeks ago.

I have a beef too. Not a big deal but.. What's with the nice caps on the Lasers and the cheap clear caps on the Laser Lites? I would've thought Petzl would have a decent rubber on a $75 screw!

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

So I've been out 3 days with my fancy Laser Lite screws and this is what I've found:

I carry all ten screws in a Cassin Bladerunner crampon bag. I've found this works well. I can throw the caps in the bag when racking up and leave the caps off the screws in the bag on the hike out. I was worried this would cause rust but it didn't except for one.

The first thing I noticed was the weight difference. I rack up for most routes using 2 10cm lasers, 4 13 cm, 2 17 cm and 1 21cm Laser Lites, a few lockers, ten draws, a belay device, my oval with multi pitch stuff, my bail locker with cord and knife plus a locker with a cordlette and slings. I kept thinking I had forgot something because my harness had no weight to it. My gear loop was empty but my mind was telling me different. A big surprise +!

Every screw but the 21 cm went in like it was a hot knife through butter. Conditions in the Adirondacks last week and MLK weekend were not hero. I heard the words bulletproof and brittle many times. Even the screw I bottomed out and resharpened went in well. I couldn't tell which screw was the old one. Clipping the hangers weren't too bad. I couldn't say the Petzl was easier to clip the draw to than the BD Express. I do like the bigger coffee grinder handle on the Petzl screws.

Everything worked great. I used the same screws over again and no trouble like Iceman said... Until I practiced V Threads with my 21 cm. The 21 cm Laser Lite did exactly what Iceman was talking about. I backed the screw out, cleaned the ice out and the screw went in all the way. Fine when you're messing around on the ground. I would have shit myself if this happened placing a 17 on the steep chandeliered ice I was on 30 minutes prior. I also had some rust on the teeth of the 21 cm. No rust or discoloration on any other Lasers or Laser Lites. I feel at this point Petzl has problems with bunches of screws. I'm going to buy another 21 cm Laser Lite and try it when I head back next week and see if that screw gives me trouble. I plan to buy the screw from another shop in hopes I get a different bunch. I'll post the results

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
Rusty new Petzl Laser Lite Screw

A picture of the screw that's like others..
Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180

What makes you think there is problems with "bunches"? The screws are probably all from the same production run at this point.

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

Bunches! Haha.. Met batches.

At this point.. Just hope that there's a simple explanation. Otherwise any ideas on why this would happen to some screws and not others?

Jon H · · PC, UT · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 118

Just a guess... amount of residual water left on the screw or in the cap. Not enough water on the screw = no chance for rust to form.

I don't remember enough from my chapter on oxidation in gen chem to say whether there's an actual threshold.

rocknice2 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 3,847

How much time passed between last climb and hanging it out to dry?

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

I leave the caps off the screws and put all of them in a crampon bag at the end of the day. When I get back to where I'm staying I dry out the screws. the next morning i place the caps back on the screws. The last day we drove back to Baltimore after climbing in the pass. 7 hours in a non-breathable bag could do it but only one screw rusted.

The screw I've already filed hasn't rusted. I've also left the cap on long enough for the original test screw, the 13cm to rust a couple weeks ago. I filed off the rust with a file and no problems.. What gives with the 21 cm??

Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180

Aluminum conducts heat better than steel. I bet it's a combination of tooling marks and rapid cooling.

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

Hey Ray, you think a different 21cm would not the problems the one have has?

Andrew Williams · · Concord, NH · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 625

My question is whether or not the steel insert is replaceable or not?

Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
Bill Kirby wrote:Hey Ray, you think a different 21cm would not the problems the one have has?
I doubt there is a difference at this point. Can you take a picture of the inside of the screw?
Jon H · · PC, UT · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 118
Bill Kirby wrote:Hey Ray, you think a different 21cm would not the problems the one have has?
I'm with Ray. I doubt there would be any difference. It's certainly not related to tooling marks though - the inside of the screw is polished mirror smooth. I suspect it has to do with the frictional properties on ice of aluminum vs steel. It seems that in the case of Petzl screws, a steel-tubed screw is slicker and places smoothly. Aluminum does not.

I had the same experience with my 21cm Laser Light and a borrowed 16cm Laser Light - both of them factory sharp (or darn close to it). They bind when being placed. That's just the way it is. The way to mitigate this problem is ensure that they are bone dry and clean on the interior, but it will never be as smooth-placing as a steel screw.

For this reason (and general durability), the only Laser Light that I own is a single 21cm screw for making V threads. My actual rack for lead protection are all Laser Speeds. I don't want to have to fiddlefuck around when I'm on lead. I can deal with the extra weight.

Andrewww wrote:My question is whether or not the steel insert is replaceable or not?
Nope. The only screw available right now (that I'm aware of) with replaceable tips is the E-Climb screw.
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
Inside a Petzl Laser Lite

Thanks for your help, Ray..

A buddy had a great idea!! It looks like the steel teeth weren't pressed on straight. I can't get a pic to show what I'm saying. I can look down the 21 cm and see a half moon lip that overlaps the aluminum tube. The rest of the rack looks good. It doesn't explian the rust but may explain why the screw won't go in the ice.

Thoughts?
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
Coating where did you go??

Coating oh coating where did you go???

I'm starting to wonder if Petzl did it again? The word GriGri comes to mind.

Anybody know if Petzl will make this right? Should I call?
Luc-514 · · Montreal, QC · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 12,506

I would call, having only 1 or 2 screws of the bunch behaving differently means the coating is not the same, these screws aren't cheap.
You need to pay particular attention to where the aluminium and steel are touching, good old galvanic/bi-metallic corrosion.

iceman777 · · Colorado Springs · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 60

For thoes of you who have this screw and it works every time , congrats ! I'm psyched for ya ! I truly am .

However ....

I have been placing the same 13cm laser light everywhere I can and its still hit and miss . One time it goes in like a hot knife in butter and the next it goes half way and stops DEAD! ,same with the 10cm.

Really! A fricken 10 cm ! Looks like the frogs stuck it in and broke it off on all us yanks .

I've since purchased a couple steel lasers and absolutely not one problem . They go in like mad and after being on an ice clipper they go right back in just as well . So that being said my new screws will all be standard metal lasers .

I'm a huge Petzl fan ! But seriously you could not give me a full rack of the lights and pay me to climb Anything with them !

I'm still thourghly convinced it's the aluminum that's the culprit . even more so now I have some of the all steel ones to compair .

I've been seeing this issue on other threads sa well , sigh.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Climbing Gear Discussion
Post a Reply to "Petzl Laser and Laser Lites or Black Diamond Ex…"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.