Europe Summer Climbing Recommendations?

Hi all,

I'm seeking recommendations for international destinations for this summer, 6 weeks mid-June to early August (not the ideal weather time, I know, but it's the vacation time we've got).

I've sifted through MP's int'l pages and climb-europe.com/, but most of them seem to only scratch the surface, so I find myself overwhelmed in trying to build an itinerary.

Here's what we're looking for:
- Climb maybe 4 days/week for 6 weeks and leave the rest of the time for city cool city exploration and inter-continental travel)
- 1-3 country stops overall
- Higher-elevation or at least shady aspects to temper the summer heat
- Sport single & multi routes, 5.9-5.11a
- Trad single & multi routes, 5.7-5.10b (probably can't continually climb steep sport stuff for many weeks in a row, so we want some lower-angle objectives as well)
- Willing to use plane, train, or car for travel, but don't want to kill too many days just getting to the crags
- Need limited approaches/arrival logistics (our trip just isn't long enough to get

From initial research, the following spots look cool:
- Greece: Kalymnos
- Crotia
- Switzerland: Bonistock / Melchsee-Frutt; Göschenertal
- Italy: Corsica, Sicily, Dolomites, Valle dell'Orco
- Turkey
- Austria
- Norway
- Romania

Would love to hear about ease of transport/logistics related to any of your recc's as well, the type of gear/rack you found particularly useful for the location, as well as any guidebooks you found particularly helpful.

We'll write up a trip report here upon our return to help share our experiences.

Thanks for reading!

Jason Albino wrote:I find myself overwhelmed in trying to build an itinerary.

Good -- shows you're understanding your research. A deeper understanding should put you in a state of "overwhelmingly overwhelmed".
There's about 50 lifetimes of good and great climbing in Europe. If you narrow it to say France, that gets it down to 15 or 20 lifetimes.

Keep in mind:
In recent years, summers in Europe have tended to be hot and/or rainy.

Avoiding heat is easier. For the rain you need access to weather models (like a smartphone with a good data contract for Europe), and flexible transportation (ideally a rental car, but in Europe those are expensive to rent and expensive to operate -- hope that the currency exchange rate keeps improving).

If you choose France Alps region (not sure why that does not interest you since it has lots of the types of climbing you want) - for the early part of your trip, I might be around. After mid-July it gets more crowded, so I leave.

Ken

P.S. If you get your recommendations for places and guidebooks from Americans, you run the risk of climbing the same polished and tourist-crowded rocks which visiting Americans have been repeatedly climbing for the last thirty years. Of course the benefit is that maybe somebody back in USA will have heard of some of the climbs you've done.

Hi
lots to tell about "good old europe":

First of all public transport to get from city to city is usually pretty good and sometimes you even get convenient transportation to climbing destinations by bus or train.

Thanks to Alpine Huts it can be quite easy to go to higher grounds and stay there for a while without "expedition logistics". At least in most parts of the Alps you got a pretty good infrastructure of well marked trails and Huts who can provide shelter and food. This can be quite convenient but also takes a little bit out the adventure..

A good source of information for Austria (usally with quite good topos) but only in german would be bergsteigen.com/ it also covers little bit of Italy, Switzerland, Germany I think.

I would know quite a bunch of Select/Best of climbing guides but pretty much all of them are in German ..

Needed gear/rack is kinda dependent on which areas you will end up traveling and what style of climbs you wanna do. For (some) higher elevation climbs you might end up needing glacier travel equipment. But don't worry if you don't want to deal with the glacier stuff there is still plenty of rock to climb on even when in hot summers.

If you want more information for climbing in the Alps you can write me a message, have quite some experience in Austria/Germany and also have done quite some stuff in Italy and Switzerland.

Thanks Ken! France is certainly a possibility, but we have zero ice/snow climbing experience or gear, so if there's any chance that's required, then it's a no-go.

Does that alter your recommendation, or are there specific spots in France you had in mind that can be fairly easily accessed which would be 100% dry?

Thanks Stefan D!

Neither of us speak German, but if the book is still worth getting for its clear pictures or topos, I'd be interested.

As per my comment to Ken, we have zero ice/snow travel experience or gear, so that's out. I'll PM you for more recc's.

Rodellar is stellar that time of year. It can even be chilly in the shade.

I love that France didn't make it onto your list. My partner and I did the Gorges du Verdon this past summer and were pretty disappointed by it. But St. Victoire outside of Aix-en-Provence looked like it was definitely worth the trip if you're heading into southern France at all.

Jason Albino wrote:France ... we have zero ice/snow climbing experience or gear

Often in France in regions with icy early morning approaches to rock climbs, there are shops to rent light crampons (and an ice axe) which you could wear on your approach shoes. It doesn't take much experience to walk up a 35-degree frozen-snow slope on crampons. (Shouldn't be hard to get a day or two of practice beforehand in the Sierra).

So far this year not much snow in the French Alps.

Anyway cutting out routes which require crampons for the approach, reduces France to only 13-18 lifetimes of good or great climbing (instead of 15-20).

English in France:
There are a significant number of English-language guidebooks for a sizable number of good/great areas in France. Also many good French climbers (especially but not only younger) speak a reasonable amount of English. Some are eager to practice speaking English (and very few French people nowadays are interested to give visitors much chance to practice improving their French-speaking).
French retail stores nowadays are full of English words.

And the popular summertime non-low-altitude climbing spots are full of visiting climbers -- from other countries in Europe. How does a Swedish climber in France talk to a Czech climber in France: speaking English.

So it's possible to find English-speaking partners at popular (crowded) climbing areas in France. Some of those areas also have English-language guidebooks (or bilingual French-English guidebooks).

Ken

Jason Albino wrote:Climb maybe 4 days/week for 6 weeks and leave the rest of the time for city cool city exploration

Good idea. All the more reason to have a car. Without one you could easily burn half to full day each way between your desired tourist site and desired climbing base.

Note that things can go wrong with rental cars. Do think about what your plan for roadside breakdown is going to be.

Jason Albino wrote:type of gear/rack you found particularly useful

Many good + great multi-pitch routes require 2 x 60m ropes for rappel descent. Many half-pitch crag climbs require 70m rope (but most can be done with single 60m).

Just becuase a route is bolted does not mean that it's a "sport" route.
Many local French climbers for a multi-pitch bolted route also bring along some trad pro (like say five cams). Unless you're only going to climb multi-pitch well below your following grade -- or a route that you really really know is well-protected with bolts) -- you might want to do the same.

Some famous regions in Europe are mostly Trad (e.g. Dolomites).

A whole other kind of gear -- especially for the Dolomites and western Austria -- is a Via Ferrata kit. Some of my most memorable days of climbing anywhere have been via ferrata routes (German: klettersteig). If you want a "different cultural" climbing experience, this is an obvious way to get it. If you're going to spend significant time around those areas without a partner, I highly recommend trying some of the great VF / klettersteig routes.

Key planning question is how much you're willilng to pay to haul stuff across the ocean. Not just ropes and protection, but English-language guidebooks are also pretty heavy - compared with modern airline baggage charges.

Ken

Thanks again all! I'll note no offense to France climbing - it just wasn't on my list because I'd been assuming that most of the good stuff there requires snow/ice passing, which we'd rather not do on this trip.

Adam Brink: tell me more about your experience in Rodeller! I think Spain might be a little far South to link with other countries we're interested in, but I'd like to at least get a good picture of a nice Spain itinerary for when we do get there in the future. Any good trad spots in the same general vicinity to pair this with?

Csquared: same questions for Sainte Victoire - what do you think?

Kenr: good to know re: rental crampons. We'll consider that, though I must say I'm hesitant to add another variable this time around to the already high-variable concept of multi-pitch trad routes in other countries. Perhaps we'll have time to get some practice in the Sierra's this winter.

Any highlights to recommend re: the good English-language guidebooks for France? I'd be particularly interested in guides that are clear on route raps - we'd love to not lug around a second rope unless we're somewhere where the most classic route at our grade requires it. I remember lugging our second rope up to Frey, Patagonia along with all our other stuff, only to find that none of the routes we did required two ropes. We've got a 70, so covered on that front.

I'll be travelling with my girlfriend, so finding climbing partners won't be an issue. We don't mind hauling guidebooks on the plan (can always rip out pages pnce cragging), it's the extra actual climbing gear we want to avoid if it's not totally needed.

We're definitely apt to rent a car where possible and will certainly heed the "plan B" advice on that.

Jason Albino wrote:English-language guidebooks for France?

Helps to check UK sources, like browse around in
UKclimbing.com
Also check Needlesports.co.uk
. . (After those I think your planning will be suitably "overwhelmed")

RockFax has several modern guidebooks for France -- keep you busy for a 6-week-visit every year for the rest of your life. For less hot venues, might want to try their Haute Provence guidebook. I'll guess that over 99.9% of routes in the RockFax guidebooks for France do not require crampons for approach.

Various English translations or bi-lingual for routes around Chamonix. You can purchase them in shops when you get there. At least one for the Ecrins massif (like Chamonix but much wilder and almost no lifts) -- likely have to order it in advance -- and that one has lots of crampon stuff.

Clarity on rappels/descents:
Modern guidebook authors tend to know that lots of their prospective buyers are very concerned about that. Lots of key info is presented symbolically, so modern French-language guidebooks can be pretty helpful.

One of the special things about climbing in Europe is the remarkably easy access to real "alpine" terrain. And in summertime it's such an obvious way to escape the heat. Learning to use light crampons seems like such a straightforward thing with a big payback. No need to learn it in winter. Should be good learning conditions around Tioga Pass in late spring after highway 120 opens.

Ken

Some special climbing things in Europe which there's almost nothing like in USA:

• Chamonix: For a few Americans (and many more non-French Europeans), one of the kay questions starting around October is: How can I work enough extra hours to afford to get back to Chamonix again next summer?

Not getting to Chamonix would be like making a climbing trip to California and not visiting Yosemite valley.
What's this all about?

• the Calanques: white rock rising up out of the deep blue sea. With hundreds of climbing routes - (only about four hours driving from Chamonix)

Alas most of those routes rather hot in summer, and some sectors closed due to fire danger.

• via ferrata routes: arguably the most popular form of "multi-pitch" climbing in Europe. Most participants think of it as a fun kind of fixed aid climbing. A few of us see it as the most advanced form of autobelay-protected free climbing.
• "museum" of artificial climbing walls: DAV München-Thalkirchen. Actually it's a large "campus" of of currently active (crowded?) indoor and outdoor climbing gyms -- most of them leading-edge facilities, but others preserved as the most interesting best they could build decades ago.

Regarding need for or difficuly of crampons and snow/ice skills in France, this recent discussion on UKclimbing forum seems pretty relevant:
ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php…

Thanks again Ken!

I'm checking those guidebook sources as we speak.

What's exactly the definition of "Via Ferrata" places, by the way? I did some research but couldn't get a clear answer. Is this literally some sort of outdoor auto-belay system??? For multipitch???

I'm definitely to carve out some time this year for the crampon learning as long as it's the key to accessing a good set of high-quality 10a and under routes that can be done well within a day in Chamonix and such. True? What are your top 5 can't-miss routes?

Jason Albino wrote:Thanks again Ken! I'm checking those guidebook sources as we speak. What's exactly the definition of "Via Ferrata" places, by the way? I did some research but couldn't get a clear answer. Is this literally some sort of outdoor auto-belay system??? For multipitch??? I'm definitely to carve out some time this year for the crampon learning as long as it's the key to accessing a good set of high-quality 10a and under routes that can be done well within a day in Chamonix and such. True? What are your top 5 can't-miss routes?

Not really :)
A Via ferrata (called "Klettersteig" in German) is a system of steel cables that secure a route to a mountain. The easier ones are just steep and exposed hiking trails, while the hardest ones can have overhanging sections. The way this system works is that yourself with a klettersteig set into the steel cable. If you fall, you fall in the worst case scenario 4-5 m to the last "stopper". Usually the steel cable is not only used for protection, but you also pull yourself up by using the steel cable.
Hence, via ferrata are a guide easy way for inexperienced people to climb in the mountains. Thus, the good routes are crowded with tourists. You can check out this vid, which gives you a good impression how crowded it is ( youtube.com/watch?v=IIvKrKN…).

I´d scrub Greece, Croatia, Turkey and Rumania off the list if you want the best of Europe in the summer months.
Switzerland- Eldorado (Grimsel Pass)
Ialy- Corsica and Sicily are really too hot. The Dolomites, Orco, Mello. Plenty of good cities to explore (and a few terrible ones as well).
Austria- loads to go at almost everywhere. Zillertal, Hohe Tauern, Kaisergebirge.
Norway- a bit specialist, more a destination in it´s own right than somewhere to visit on a round trip.
Germany-the Frankenjura of course and there is a lot of climbing at higher altitudes in the Allgau.

A good round trip would be The Dolomites, Kaisegebirge, Frankenjura, Allgau, Chamonix, Grimsel, Orco/Mello with the appropriate city on the way.

Jason Albino wrote:I'm definitely to carve out some time this year for the crampon learning as long as it's the key to accessing a good set of high-quality 10a and under routes that can be done well within a day in Chamonix and such.

Read that thread on UKclimbing linked above. It's a bunch of knowledgeable UK climbers answering your question. The word "girlfriend" appears multiple times.
Also has a clever idea for how to start using crampons in Europe without practicing in advance.

One route mentioned in that thread is "Arete des Papillons". We took the lift up to Plan d'Aiguille and just hiked up to the start of the climb. Afterward a couple of rappels with slight trickiness, some down-climbing back to the lift with an old snow patch where some crampons might have been useful, down to the valley by mid-afternoon.

I don't know what high-mountain Sierra multi-pitch you've been on, but I had just done Third Pillar of Dana a few weeks before, and I thought Arete des Papillons was superior in every way. Chamonix granite can be really fun climbing (and tends not to require much jamming technique).

I still think Eastside Sierra has very fun featured granite (e.g. "He She" on the Gong Show wall), but for long multi-pitch with long approaches I think now that I'll save most of that for trips to France (I also have a list of excellent granite routes in Switzerland and Italy), focus my high Sierra climbing on other kinds.

A route which a number of people say is the best multi-pitch granite they've done is "Visite Obligatoire", direct south face of the Aiguille Dibona in the Ecrins National Park - (right-side ridge):



Not Chamonix ... No lift for the approach ... but there's a hut at the base, so you could do the approach the afternoon before on a well-trodden S-facing trail. Ten pitches of sustained 5.10-5.9 face climbing with bolts. No pitch is supposed to be harder than 10a, but it's so sustained (and of course the first pitch or two are kinda runout, perhaps to deter the unworthy), so it's recommended that the leader be solid at 5.10c. Crampons might be useful for the descent.

We instead did an easier route next to it called "Voie Madier", which is mixed Trad with some bolts (which carefully matched the positioning of the original pitons). We bypassed the crux pitch, and our variation was also interesting, then joined some higher pitches of V.O. (indeed good as people say). Variety of fun climbing, with non-trivial route-finding. Plenty big enough adventure for me.

Ken

P.S. - Huts - unique to Europe?
We do have a few in USA (more in Canada), but the number and density in Europe is special. Especially American ski mountaineers seem to get very into sleeping in huts whey they visit. So you might want to fit that into your trip.
But for Aiguille Dibona (and another climb "Mazurka" nearby) we skipped the hut (Refuge Soreiller), just did it car-to-car in a day. My French and German climbing partners don't sleep in huts very much -- but huts are nice for snacks and drinks along the way back down to the car, and to stash unnecessary clothing and stuff after the early morning approach is over.

MalcolmX wrote: Not really :) A Via ferrata (called "Klettersteig" in German) is a system of steel cables that secure a route to a mountain.

Well turns out there is a special via ferrata kit, the Skylotec Skyrider, which works on steel cable (of appropriate diameter) like a normal auto-belay does on climbing rope. So climbing a VF route with the Skylotec Skyrider is like following with a belay from a leader. Except no waiting to place protection or set up anchors - (and no need to find a partner who wants to do the same route on the same day as you).

Doing a VF route with a normal VF kit is like climbing a multi-pitch route with the threat of taking a Leader fall (as I might do self-belay on rope with my Silent Partner device) - except the fall would often be more dangerous than leading with rope. So you do not want to push your limits of free rock moves without a Skyrider -- instead just grab the cable for aid (like most VF participants do for the entire route). For sustained overhanging sections, I bring an additional (shorter) rest leash so I can hang for resting.

Lots of great VF routes that are well below my difficulty limit I gladly climb "free" with a non-Skylotec VF kit ... making all my moves with hands and feet directly on the rock -- gladly taking the Leader belay of the non-Skylotec, with the idea that if a hold breaks or something, I've still get a chance of the steel cable saving my life.

So really climbing a VF is a lot like self-belay with a rope ... but much much faster and usually much more fun.

When I visit northeast Italy or Austria , I don't worry much about finding partners. I've got my list of favorite VF routes which I'll gladly climb again and again -- and still some more new ones I haven't tried. Austria has a thick modern German-language guidebook only for VF, and Northeast Italy has another thick one (with competitors, there's also a slightly less useful English-language). And I own yet another thick German guidebook for VF routes in the rest of Italy. France has fewer, most in a different style which I find less interesting, and I have my list for there too.

Ken

Csquared wrote:But St. Victoire outside of Aix-en-Provence looked like it was definitely worth the trip if you're heading into southern France at all.

Saint Victoire could be too toasty hot. Most all the crag is south facing. Was t-shirt weather in mid May when we were there. In fact, come to think of it, access during hot, dry weather in the summer might be prohibited.

For six weeks...hmm. Could fly in and out of Milan. Start climbing at Arco/Dolomites then swing west. Or vice versa. Hit the Chiavenna area near the Swiss border. Drop over to Turin for Rocca Sbarua or swing through Switzerland. Head to Chamonix and work over to Grenoble. Hit the Vercors. Then, over to the Ecrins for some Aiguille Dibona action and some craggin by La Grave (or multi pitch on Roche Robert). Down to Briancon and to Allefroide. Then pop back to Milan by the route of your choice.

Nice length of time. Good for a loop trip.

Way too much to see and do...!

Malcolm: thanks for the Via Ferrata explanation! Definitely not our thing there, especially since it doesn't filter out non-climber tourists.

Jim Titt: I really liked your list. Looking into the net-new places you mentioned now. If you had to pick your top one or two, which ones would they be and why?

Brian: Also liked your itinerary, and I can see. Seems lot a lot of places for 6 weeks but I guess if the logistics/approaches are all pretty easy I could see it. How did you find those variables in those spots you mentioned?

Jason Albino wrote:Brian: Also liked your itinerary, and I can see. Seems lot a lot of places for 6 weeks but I guess if the logistics/approaches are all pretty easy I could see it. How did you find those variables in those spots you mentioned?

Pretty easy/reasonable. There's a lot of information online and you could get a hit list of routes and/or crags pretty easily.

An option, I think Jim T. mentioned above, would be to hit Grimsel Pass for a day or three. From Grimsel, its a straight shot to Chamonix and another to Grenoble.

Summer season can be pretty crowded. Some ground work on lodging options and maybe a few reservations might make life easier, but, wouldn't give you as many options to reload with weather issues.

If were me, I'd rent a car for the whole rig. Pulse the weather and see where's the best forecast, and, head that way. You could do the Milan loop in any direction. Easy airport to fly in and out of (ie, no where near town...ha ha). We flew into Milan from JFK, drove to Arco, set up a tent in the campground outside of town, and still had time to drive to a local crag and climb a 7 pitch route before dark, on the same day.

Even if you limited your trip to a week in each spot, you can see a nice variety of places. A quick climb and night in Arco, then, Dolomites for a week (way too short!!), take a day to drive over to Chiavenna for a week. Hit a crag on the drive. Then, alternate craggin' and long routes on the Swiss border (doing a route on the Piz Badile could be super!). Pop over the border and hit Grimsel. Down to Chamonix. Grenoble and hit the Vercors for a bit (Presles and Mont Aiguille, etc). Over to the Ecrins. Etc.

Fun! I'm usually tryin' to do the best I can in a two or three week window. Git 'er done!