Camp (Cassin) Xdream picks - Crap steel?
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So I use a pair of X-dreams. I love them. |
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I don't think its that its much softer steel, as much as it is that there's so much less of it. That being said, the picks cost half the price of the petzl's so you can burn through them twice as fast at the same cost. |
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I don't know if it makes a difference, but the standard pick for X-Dream/All Mtn is B rated where Petzl Ice is T rated and same goes for Fusion. In fact, most of the latest model technical tools have T rated picks. |
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good call Jeff. I realize that it is the rock that is damaging them. I was for sure on a ton of rock on cinema on sunday. Little taps into the thin stuff, and dry tooling. But I certainly wasn't swinging into it like back in the day when I first started with my quarks. Man I used to bash those things into thing ice (ROCK)...hard. Those picks were awesome, although I think those were aremet. Obviously not apples to apples. |
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Yea I think mine were cascade picks. Werent they made of Aermet steel? I wonder why no one uses it anymore? Availability, cost maybe? |
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Hey brother! How could I forget! That was a sweet trip. Hope life is treating you well. I'm headed up to the dacks this weekend for the festival. Talk soon man. |
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Yes. |
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Jeffrey Dunn wrote:Hey brother! How could I forget! That was a sweet trip. Hope life is treating you well. I'm headed up to the dacks this weekend for the festival. Talk soon man.Man I was thinking about heading up but I would assume its gonna be crazy packed and I've got no where to stay. Was gonna head up to the whites instead since it wouldn't be as crowded but my normal partner cant make it. Kirby - Glad to know Im not just dreaming. But I think Jeffs right. Thin steel will obviously take a bigger beating then thicker steel, everything else being equal. But I do still think that these are softer then your average pick. I mean, even when I am super super careful about it, they still look like theyve been through 5 days of climbing compared to a petzl or BD pick. It is what it is. Guess I'll just be grabbing spares sooner rather then later. No biggie, considering the price point. |
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CMS, |
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Chris, the original Cascade picks were definitely NOT made of Aermet or any other exotic steel. |
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Damn Jon, that sucks! I'll show your post to a camp guy this weekend. |
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divnamite wrote:I don't know if it makes a difference, but the standard pick for X-Dream/All Mtn is B rated where Petzl Ice is T rated and same goes for Fusion. In fact, most of the latest model technical tools have T rated picks. The OLD Quark's cascade pick, now that's a bomber pick, B rated but takes abuses like a champ.The standard stock pick for the XDream, the Mixte pick, is T rated. In fact, all the current picks for the Xdream, the Mixte, Race, and even the Ice, are T rated. |
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Brian Abram wrote: The standard stock pick for the XDream, the Mixte pick, is T rated. In fact, all the current picks for the Xdream, the Mixte, Race, and even the Ice, are T rated.Source? |
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The good news is that the more you file back the beak on the Cassin pick, the better it cleans from the ice. They are surely a bit "sticky" when new. |
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Gunkiemike wrote:The good news is that the more you file back the beak on the Cassin pick, the better it cleans from the ice. They are surely a bit "sticky" when new.I file off the bird beak right after I tighten the new picks down... Unless I hire Ian Osteyee. |
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divnamite wrote: Source?The photo posted by Bill shows the Mixte pick. I bought the replacement Ice picks, but I sent them back. I expected them to be a bit thinner, B rated, and less aggressive. The Ice picks are actually very slightly thicker and more downturned than the Mixte picks. You can read about the picks on page 5 of this PDF from CAMP: camp.it/mailinglist/01_camp… "Compared with the Mixte and Race picks, the tip of the ice pick is also situated 6 mm closer to the handle" I have no idea why, even though it mentions making the Ice pick swing more like an All Mountain. Regarding the thickness: "The Mixte pick weighs 120 grams, with the thickness gradually increasing from 3 to 4 mm, 10 cm from the tip." "the [Ice] pick gradually widens from 3 to 4 mm, 8 cm back from the tip of the pick." So the Mixte pick tapers to full thickness gradually over 10cm, and the Ice pick tapers more quickly over just 8 cm. The Ice pick is thus a bit beefier. You can see it if you look at both picks side by side. The Race picks are tapered even less, though I haven't held one myself: "At just 4 cm from the tip, the cross-section of the Race pick widens from 3 mm to 4 mm." I'll confirm that the Ice picks are indeed stamped "T". Here is a photo from thealpinestart (Raf) with the Ice pick lying on top of a Mixte pick: thealpinestart.com/2014/03/… |
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I'll go ahead an add my experience to this, and wholeheartedly agree with the OP. The picks are very, very soft. WAY softer than equivalent BD and Petzl picks. I had a couple light taps on rock this weekend that would barely have registered on my BD picks (lasers), but totally blunted the ends of the x-dreams mixte picks. The steel is, indeed, crap. |
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Anybody have access to a Rockwell tester? If we can find people with retired BD, Petzl, Cassin, and Grivel picks, I will happily donate $22 to cover everyone's shipping costs (USPS Priority flat rate envelope $5.50 x 4) to get the picks tested. |
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I think I could get them tested when I send out a batch of blades to get heat treated. The company that does my HT is very good. I bet they would only charge a few extra bucks to test some picks. Worth it in my opinion. |
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Awesome! I could probably find a retired BD and / or Petzl pick or two if I ask around. Can't help with the Grivel or Camp ones. |