Petzl Laser and Laser Lites or Black Diamond Express?

I've always been a BD Express screw fan. I tried out the Petzl Laser screws and have expreinced way easier placements with the Petzl's then with the BDs. I like the fact I could buy that fancy pants sharpener too. I like the handle on the Petzl and they rack just as well as the BDs.

Anyone have an opinion that's used both companies screws?

I have used both . Here's my take .

BD was the definitive easy to place screw for a time . I've never had a problem with the petzl laser sonic so I stuck with petzl for the simple fact everyone else I climbed with used BD screws.

way easier to sort your gear after a climb . There's no mistaking one screw for another . I engrave my hangers with my initials for the rare occasion when I'm climbing with someone who uses laser sonic screws .

If you find petzl works for you then use petzl .

FYI I just purchased a new petzl laser light 13cm and a 10 cm to augment my rack , while I haven't placed them yet ( this will happen tomorrow) I can only hope that they are worth the 75 bucks a pop.

I still have mixed feelings about aluminum tubes and ice ( I can still vividly recall trying to place those old aluminum screws way back when and clearing them out ) and don't even get me started on titanium screws .

They do rack just fine and I've never had an issue with the old style petzls so it's kinda a moot point .

As for the sharpener ? I'm forever going to take a pass just like I did with that plastic v thread gauge pos BD made . Money better spent elsewhere IMOH . BTW I've seen posts stating the sharpener changes the angle of the teeth to more closely resemble Grivels . Food for thought ?

I thought someone posted a few months ago that the Petzl sharpener doesn't work on the new "steep angle" teeth.

I've placed those Al tube screws a couple times now, and one very nice thing about them that doesn't get mentioned is that, because they are so much lighter, they are much less prone to falling off when you give them that first turn and then take your hand off.

Someone get a set to Dane at CT so we can know which ones to get!!! Seriously.

Perhaps ? But why would petzl make a sharpener that didn't work with there ice screws ? Hmmmm.

If this is true then I certanly wouldn't buy one . Not that I ever intend to.when my screws need to be sharpened they go to Bill at Ouray mountain sports n come out just fine . If that don't work I'll buy new ones .

As for the laser lights I was thinking the light migh be a little less prone to accidently droping , but damn 15 bucks more a screw ! For that price I was hoping they would place themselves and clip the rope in as well .

As for Dane , he's a big boy he can buy his own screws , frankly I prefer to test my own gear, make my own decisions and not rely too much on others. This is why I only purchased two of the new petzl screws .... being an unpaid test pilot has its limits .

I've all 3, the BD Express, Laser Speed and Laser Speed Light.

The BD has been my go-to for a while, wasn't a fan of previous Petzl Sonics.

I definitely like the new Petzl screws though, I'd agree they start easier and are less top heavy. They feel secure when placing, the transition from engaging them to cranking them down feels smooth and secure. I'm not sure it's a massive difference, but it's there. I like the feel of it it in my hand and it's more streamlined to me. The double hanger is fine on the BD, but I feel like the Petzl is cleaner. It's definitely nicer when I'm rolling them all up for storage. They rack just as well if not better than the BD. The large hanger hole is a plus as well. They will fit in slightly tighter spaces than the BD. Both screws have excellent cranks, but they do feel a bit different. I prefer the Petzl with larger gloves. I'm still deciding if I'll replace my BD steel screws with these.

The Laser Speed Light, however, are seriously awesome. They shave serious weight. I mean a 21 cm is lighter than a 10 cm BD. I've a full set of these for my alpine climbs. Say you're using 10 or so screws on some climbs, that's real savings. I really feel they're a total step up, definitely much improved over the E-Climb screws. At times, they do require a bit more attention to clean IMO.

No idea on the sharpener.

Links on the Petzl sharpener:

iceclimbingforums.com/showt…

mountainproject.com/v/petzl…

And a pic of a Grivel screw totally overheated by someone using the machine at Ouray Mt. shop. Worst burning I've ever seen.

Gunkiemike wrote:I thought someone posted a few months ago that the Petzl sharpener doesn't work on the new "steep angle" teeth. I've placed those Al tube screws a couple times now, and one very nice thing about them that doesn't get mentioned is that, because they are so much lighter, they are much less prone to falling off when you give them that first turn and then take your hand off.

mountainproject.com/v/petzl…
Here's something to consider about when choosing screws.
The Petzl spinning hanger design allows the second to leave the draw attached to the screw while removing it from the ice.

This makes it less likely to get dropped.

Can't do this as effectively with the BD express.

FWIW I own both screw types but not the Petzl lights.

I strongly agree with what people are saying (for what it's worth...)

Got a big set of the aluminum Petzl screws. Love them, and could see them being a replacement to the BDs but fear the aluminum (threads) will get beat up easy in chimneys or general cragging.
That would be my only concern I guess.

But yeah, 2to1 weight ratio compared to the BDs.
Way easier to start in, which also equals less chance of dropping.
Also to note. The tooth shape seemed the same as the BDs but with a additional horzontal(compared to the tooth) groove cut in down near base of tooth. I guess that is the little magic trick shape to making them start easier.....?
Nice handle, spinner, and clip hole. Racks fine, even mixed in with BDs on same spot.

Ditching the steel for aluminum for the big trip coming up. What a difference in weight for a long haul into the mountains!

C

Gunkiemike wrote:Links on the Petzl sharpener: iceclimbingforums.com/showt… mountainproject.com/v/petzl… And a pic of a Grivel screw totally overheated by someone using the machine at Ouray Mt. shop. Worst burning I've ever seen.

Thanks for the links.. I was thinking on getting the Lim Ice for same reasons as everyone else. I think I'll stick to what I've been doing after reading those threads. Plus I already got a the files, wood blocks and a vise.

There's no way I would pack that in my daypack either. The small file I carry in my med kit takes up less room and weight. I rather pack a thermos or puffy pants!

Well I used that fancy new AL petzl screw today and sadly I'm not too impressed .

Yes it's goes in as fast as a BD or Grivel but There is a catch folks

You had better be sure the tube is completely free of any Ice residue and I mean ANY !

I placed this thing everywhere in every kind of ice I could find until I grew tired of placing it , cold blue bullet proof , sun baked , Warm hero ice . And I placed , removed and replaced this thing 15-20 times in each type of ice I could find today.

Heres what happened , just let the smallest particle of ice remain in the tube and your in for a big surprise at the half way point , sometimes not even half way . The fucker won't budge another inch . I didn't force it for fear of snapping the crank but rest assured I gave it some serious torque even going as far as grabbing the hanger itself and twisting until I thought it would bend or break . I completely cleaned and warmed the screw Before placing it again and it went in like butter so you have been warned . If you think your going to Just tap out the ice and hang it back on your ice clipper your WRONG! Some of you have discovered this as well .

I also found another culprit , water Yep if there's any drop of water in the screw it will cause the ice core from the next placement to freeze inside the tube and again stop you dead !

You can call bs all ya want and piss n moan about how your laser lights work fine but I know better and so do those of YOU who own them and have seriously used them . You know it dosnt take a small ice particle to stop a BD, Grivel or old style Petzl laser .

The aluminum threads are a concern as well, too fine and prone to damage easly I cannot see where this would be a prime candidate for alpine considering the abuse gear gets in that environment . Not to mention the wasted energy of caring for them . Too much fiddling around for one piece of gear or a dozen for that matter.

I'm seriously disappointed in this screw as I wanted it to be the end all light weight last screws I'll buy
But after today I'm glad I only purchased two .

One last complaint ... This goes for the Aluminum laser speeds , why don't you get a plastic tube with the screw when you buy it ? All my old petzls came with that racking tube thingy what ever the hell it's called . For 75 bucks they could at least give you that for transporting such a delicate screw .

I've had several dozen screws sharpened at Ouray Mt sports with no issues what so ever even friends I know have never had issues .so while I'm sorry to hear your screw had been sharpened wrong , possibly overheated ( and btw I've had a couple of mine with the discolaration on the teeth but still no issues placing that screw in fact I still use and place that screw regularly ) I hope they made it right for you .

But let's not start a pissing match because everyone knows arguing on the Internet is like running in the special Olympics even if you think you win your still a retard .so homie ain't gona play that
if you need any further convincing just take a gander at my avatar .

So you selling your petzl screws?

Cor wrote:The tooth shape seemed the same as the BDs but with a additional horzontal(compared to the tooth) groove cut in down near base of tooth. I guess that is the little magic trick shape to making them start easier.....? C

That little groove at the base of the teeth is for the lim'ice. Its there so when you sharpen the leading edge , it won't have a step from the files edge.

Those Grivel sharpening machines absolutely do not sharpen to any of the modern screw specs.

PS the bluing of the tips is in fact overheating. While this won't affect the sharpness of the screw it will affect how long it stays that way.

Josh Allred wrote:So you selling your petzl screws?

I want the Laser Lite 10cm screw!

Iceman,

I'm 100% interested in your expreinces with Petzl screws. While I haven't had any problems with placing Laser Lites doesn't mean I wouldn't take you serious. I'll say the same thing I say about ice tools. You don't like the tool after you have tried it cool. You don't like the tool and you have never tried it.. Not cool. I'm surprised you would say the Petzl goes in the same as the BD. I've found the Petzl starts and goes in much quicker than the BD Express. That said I'm not going to "piss and moan" about it.

Another thing, when you captaiized all the letters in the word you was that for me? Do you think I would have the same problems you're having and not write about them? Beating your chest is just as lame as aruging in the Internet. You say you give zero fucks.. your posts reads different. Your post reads like you want to say something. You wanna be taken serious and you won't be pushed around. I will always check my new screws for ice and or water in the shaft now. I would've taken everything you said into consideration tough guy act or not.

Bill

I'll be getting my screws from Petzl tomorrow and plan to head to the Dacks Friday. I'll be sure to post up what a review.. I'm no expert so take my words for what theyre worth.

Well, that situation sucks. However, I don't think you do know better with your one day of usage. I have seriously used them in multiple big ranges and they've been reliable for me. I have heard of that of that happening once so I'm not discounting that it happened to you. I think I might have seen that in a review somewhere. It hasn't happened to me yet and most people I know really like them.

You tried the 13 cm Laser Light, how'd you like the regular steel Laser 10 cm compared to a BD?

Bill, heading to Mountainfest, I presume?

I bought one laser light to try it out this week in the ADK's. It starts and goes in faster than the BD express and I quickly wanted to replace my rack with them, given this fact and the weight difference. However, climbing in below zero temps, I found the laser light would refuse to bite and immediately plugged with ice when placing in a horizontal placement that had any water on it. Of course it is not unusual for a screw to plug with ice if it gets wet and the temps are very low, but the BD screw went in where the laser would not.

I also worry about thread damage in the pack, so care may be needed when packing these by placing them in a protective sleeve or roll when packing, but who will take that much time when packing up after a cold day of climbing.

I am sold on the laser light and if not for the steep cost and the pile of BD screws I already own I would invest heavily on the laser light. Bottom line is that both screws are phenomenal pieces of equipment that has made setting ice pro quick, safe and a reasonable thing to do in almost all instances, though it just got faster and lighter.

How long does it take to sharpen past the steel insert?

M17 wrote:Well, that situation sucks. However, I don't think you do know better with your one day of usage. I have seriously used them in multiple big ranges and they've been reliable for me. I have heard of that of that happening once so I'm not discounting that it happened to you. I think I might have seen that in a review somewhere. It hasn't happened to me yet and most people I know really like them. You tried the 13 cm Laser Light, how'd you like the regular steel Laser 10 cm compared to a BD? Bill, heading to Mountainfest, I presume?

Haha.. It took me four reads before I realized you weren't replying to me.

Yes.. No clinics, just going to try and avoid the crowds. I think it will good times for a friend who been out on ice a hand ful of times. This was the best time for him. He's got a wife and two little girls

Ray, that's a good question. I bet that might be a concern with my 13s. I bottom out screws sometimes. I hit rock on that 13 I got the first time I placed it. That's what started this whole thing. I messed up the threads, placed it a couple more times that day then sharpened with files. The next time the Petzl went in better than the Express. Sold!

I've used them quite a bit now and absolutely love them. I usually use the new BD express and a few Grivels. The Petzls start so much faster and with less effort. The shape of the hanger seems to be better, as placements haven't required much cleaning for the hanger to clear. I'll pick up a handful of the lights and fill the rest with the standard laser speeds.

Make me an offer on good conditions BDs!

damn, and I had one of these in my shopping cart to try out and figured i didnt "need" it right now so didnt buy it.

Im an idiot. Kirby - You gonna switch over to all petzls?

I'm outside posting this. Think I need to put down the cell phone!!

CMS, yes I switched to all Petzl's screws. 2-10cm, 4 13 cm, 3 17 cm, and 1 21. I'm picking them up from the Mountaineer at 5pm tonight.

I've been using 2 16 BDs, 1 13cm Laser Lite and 19cm express for the last 8 days. Looking forward to more than 3 screws/ pitch. I posted a pic on NEice last weekend. Theres only one screw in the pic because I sold my old rack.