Transition from top rope to rappel

Searched the forums, found nothing, so here goes:

Say I'm setting up a toprope. It's easier/safer to rappel off than to downclimb that sketchy scramble. I'm standing on top the cliff, there are two bomber bolts at my feet (no rap rings, no chains), and no natural protection available. I build a standard toprope anchor like the one below with lockers and slings:

So, how could I transition from standing above the anchor to being able to rappel down the toprope? I'm familiar with instructor tethers like this and moving from one rope to another with autoblocks, but unsure how to set up another system on just two bolts with slings. Thoughts? I'm gonna die?

You could certainly attach an instructor tether to one of the bolts and then use it to descend over the edge. Obviously, it would be helpful if that instructor tether were attached farther back (to another bolt, a tree, or a well placed cam).

Wherever the instructor tether is attached, if you pre-rig your rappel, backed up by an autoblock, it is very easy to transition from the instructor tether to the rappel:

In this photo, the climber is preparing to descend the instructor tether using a munter hitch.

Yer definitely gonna die.

In your picture, instructor tether independently attached to the bolts is the best way to go (in my opinion). A great option is to grab 20-30' of static rope from your local gear shop - they may have some lying around, it's still dirt cheap - which will give you a lot of freedom in building anchors, setting up independent instructor tethers, etc.

Or just lead the pitch ;)

There was a thread about this just a couple of weeks ago. Even the title was almost the same!

mountainproject.com/v/trans…

Matthew- I think prerigging the rappel is the key here I was missing. That'll make a single point instructor tether redundant- correct? Should the bolt fail, I'll fall onto the rappel, which is blocked.

Louis- I did lead the pitch, but the nature of the anchors on top and the distance I needed to extend the anchor over the edge for a toprope made this a weird situation. Didn't have 30' of static line, just some long slings. I clipped in above the masterpoint and downclimbed till I could weight the rappel. But I was probably gonna die.

aikibujin- Already read it, didn't quite find the advice I was looking for. Nothing about just using two bolts there, without static line, without natural protection options. And what if the terrain can't be down-climbed?Hmmm? :)

I turn my back to the cliff while on rappel and downclimb to the master point; use the slings/webbing/cordalette to lower yourself down.

I've also anchored a short length of cordalette to a tree or part of the wall so it's long enough that it falls past the master point. I'll set up two different rappels with my ATC and GriGri, so that when my GriGri raps off the end of the cordalette, I'm on the 2-strand top rope rappel (your brake hand grips all strands, and you'll rap off the end of the cordalette, at which point you'll still have the two strands in your brake hand from the top rope.)

So much easier to downclimb to the master point!

I've always down climbed. Obviously I pre-rig the rappel with a back up and use a sling if needed for a foot loop and make sure I'm anchored too.

Savanna wrote:Nothing about just using two bolts there, without static line, without natural protection options. And what if the terrain can't be down-climbed?Hmmm? :)

Then go find whoever bolted the route and teach him/her how to bolt an anchor.

Easiest way would be to downclimb with a pre-rigged and tied off rappel on the climbing rope. If it's too hard to downclimb, you can tie a couple knots on the webbing you used for anchor and hand-over-hand lower yourself down to the masterpoint.... but yeah, ya gonna die!

Safer but more cumbersome is to rig another rappel above the masterpoint (the instructor tether referred to above). Either using one bolt or both bolts. Even if you don't have another rope, you can just use one end of your climbing rope. build your upper anchor, thread one end of your rope through it, make sure you have enough to get down to the masterpoint AND knot the end. Rap on this however you want (maybe with a munter so you can pre-rig and tie off your belay device on the lower masterpoint), once you transfer to the rap on the lower masterpoint, unknot and pull the end through and you'll have the entire length of your rope to rap with. But again, ya gonna die!

Come to think of it, I don't see a masterpoint in that photo you posted. That's either a sling-X on a super long sling with no limiter knots, or not even a sling-X. So you're most definitely gonna die.

aikibujin wrote: That's either a sling-X on a super long sling with no limiter knots, or not even a sling-X. So you're most definitely gonna die.

I noticed the same crap. This anchor lacks redundancy (no knots to isolate sling strands, and is extremely prone to friction, due to the sling potentially sliding around on the rock's edge). Try providing a cushion to separate the sling from the abrasive rock. (I don't know that you don't, already. This may be a picture you used from someone else's set up. Just lookin' out for ya.)

Paul Hutton wrote: I noticed the same crap. This anchor lacks redundancy (no knots to isolate sling strands, and is extremely prone to friction, due to the sling potentially sliding around on the rock's edge). Try providing a cushion to separate the sling from the abrasive rock. (I don't know that you don't, already. This may be a picture you used from someone else's set up. Just lookin' out for ya.)

Yup, not my anchor, just a pic from Google to show the masterpoint lower and over the edge, out of reach for a rappel off the ledge. But thanks for looking out! I'm trying to keep "fell to her death" off my epitaph.

aikibujin wrote: Then go find whoever bolted the route and teach him/her how to bolt an anchor.

What is wrong with that top rope anchor setup?

It wasn't made for rappelling. I would much rather set a toprope like that than have to hang over the face to reach bolts. I am personally scared to death of heights and won't set topropes. I only lead from the ground up because heights make me dizzy / feel unbalanced so I don't want to walk near an edge to set a toprope.

be VERY careful when going over the edge on a TR setup

make sure you attached with 2 independent methods ... ie have youre rappel setup (with a knot below the device) before going over the edge as well as a tether to the anchor (or better one of the bolts directly)

the reason is that you generally cant test your setup with full body weight before going over the edge

last month in squamish a climber was setting up a TR at a popular crag when they moved over the edge to weight the setup, and the entire anchor came right apart ...

the climber tumbled down the slab 25m burning through the hands nearly to the bone and had serious injuries ... the thing that may have saved him was that he was wearing a pack and this protected his back

remember ... always be backed up and test your system before taking off any safety ... dont just setup TR and go right over

also keep the system simple ... fancy anchors are even more confusing when setting from above ... and harder to check visually

Bummer all the photos in this thread are dead now. Anyone have some updated pictures to bring this thread back to usefulness? Found via google.

I’m not sure about the ethics in that area, but that seems like a perfect candidate for you to add fixed gear (quick-link, 7-9 links of chain always add an odd number of links, and steel-biners.) 

Cuts out the confusion and guess work trying to rap off a weird setup. Gl

Just be HARD! Rig your rap and turn and jump off!!!!
That’s how the pros do it - score more style points by doing the rap as a simul!

Edit: this is a joke!  There is no graceful way to do this. I pre-rig the device, lay down, grab the bolts, beners and let your bod down—- stay clipped in with a pass in-till your sure the device is engaged.