Another Accident due to mis-use of the Gri-gri
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mediocre wrote:20 kn, I see your problem right in your last post. You should be tying in with a figure 8, not a bowline.I use the bowline as a partner competency check. I tie the bowline, and then clearly show it to my partner asking "does my figure eight look good?" You wont believe how many yeses I get. Most of them are from gym climbers. ;) |
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Tim Lutz wrote:You stitch a rope through a stitch plateThe educated world uses a Sticht plate. Named after Fritz Sticht who designed equipment for Salewa. |
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He invented the tubular ice screw as well. |
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So - Is there any actual analysis of this accident? |
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JohnnyG wrote:So - Is there any actual analysis of this accident? Like an interview with the belayer, or anything? Or is this all hearsay? Did anyone else hear of or witness this accident?Actual analysis!? What are you new to Mountain Project? First there is an announcement of the accident usually by someone who wasn't there. Second there is wild speculation as to what happened and who or what is to fault. Third there is name calling and insults when people don't agree. Well okay, not everyone and if you wade through the pages of BS you may be able to interpret a modicum of useful information. |
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JohnnyG wrote:So - Is there any actual analysis of this accident? Like an interview with the belayer, or anything? Or is this all hearsay? Did anyone else hear of or witness this accident?Belayer was climber's young teenage daughter. Climber is well known and respected locally, regionally, and somewhat nationally. I'm sure more info will come out at some point. This thread exists to argue about opinions, not actually figure anything out. |
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Totally sad accident. I'm sure his daughter feels awful, and I hope him the best recovery. |
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JohnnyG wrote:Totally sad accident. I'm sure his daughter feels awful, and I hope him the best recovery. It would be helpful to have some listing of GriGri failures. My impression is they are very rare.Belayer or GriGri? I would be happy to wager they are 99.99% belayer caused accidents with that.01% being the wear issue which most will probably never encounter because they'll loose their grigris (per Locker) before this occurs. |
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I've worn holes in GriGris. I think it is from all the time spent on fat dirty static ropes while cleaning routes. It makes sense to have a fresh one for your normal belaying. |
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Brian wrote: Actual analysis!? What are you new to Mountain Project? First there is an announcement of the accident usually by someone who wasn't there. Second there is wild speculation as to what happened and who or what is to fault. Third there is name calling and insults when people don't agree. Well okay, not everyone and if you wade through the pages of BS you may be able to interpret a modicum of useful information.Perfect! Right on target. |
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JohnnyG wrote:Totally sad accident. I'm sure his daughter feels awful, and I hope him the best recovery. It would be helpful to have some listing of GriGri failures. My impression is they are very rare.Folks dropped on grigris are not unknown or even "rare" Now an actual mechanical issue with a grigri is very rare But do a simple search for grigri accident on google and you'll find tons And there are threads on MP about drops on grigris, being dropped on a grigri and dropping someone on a grigri A grigri is a great device if uses properly by an experienced belayer with a solid break hand Unfortunately if you take a quick glance around the crag next time many folks dont use a grigri properly Its the common attitude that grigris will do your work for you that causes these drops |
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Morgan Patterson wrote:http://www.gofundme.com/jimewingAbsurd |
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tim wrote: AbsurdWhy? Because he didn't go on vacation with 20k extra for a medical flight his insurance wouldn't pay? Should he be left in a hospital half a country away racking up bigger out of network fees because he didn't have the money? He did everything right insurance wise, not a lot of people have 20k sitting around. Especially those that work to make the gear you use. |
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bearbreeder wrote: A grigri is a great device if uses properly by an experienced belayer with a solid break hand"brake" |
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bearbreeder wrote: Folks dropped on grigris are not unknown or even "rare" Now an actual mechanical issue with a grigri is very rare But do a simple search for grigri accident on google and you'll find tons And there are threads on MP about drops on grigris, being dropped on a grigri and dropping someone on a grigri...O.k. so I did a quick google search and I only found maybe two incidents of people being dropped. One guy said he was dropped but offered zero detail another account started "So I was there but..." One guy chimed in that they dropped a grigri on his big toe. A woman complianed about her hair getting stuck. Other people with stuck ropes. And one mysterious report of a cut rope with no details; people suspected gravel got caught in the grigri. So--anyone else ever had a grigri failure? or know of specific cases? Could these "tons" of grigri failures be just a myth? |
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JohnnyG wrote: O.k. so I did a quick google search and I only found maybe two incidents of people being dropped. One guy said he was dropped but offered zero detail another account started "So I was there but..." One guy chimed in that they dropped a grigri on his big toe. A woman complianed about her hair getting stuck. Other people with stuck ropes. And one mysterious report of a cut rope with no details; people suspected gravel got caught in the grigri. So--anyone else ever had a grigri failure? or know of specific cases? Could these "tons" of grigri failures be just a myth?I think you may get a lot of responses. I personally know of one where the belayer (a young girl) panicked when her boyfriend fell in a gym and she held down the lever and he decked. You can say that is not the device but a high potential misuse of a device is as critical as a mechanical failure of the device. Most of these misuses, like this, probably don't make it to the web so won't show up in a Google search. |
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I take offense to the title of the post- it is unfair to the grigri because it suggests the gri-gri to be a faulty or difficult-to-use-properly device while there is little emphasis on the belayer's role. It is akin to a car accident where a driver is operating their car on the wrong direction lane of the road (happened to me, the guy caused me to total my car) and the headline reads, "Another accident due to misuse of a car". Belayers (and climbers who let people belay them) need to take responsibility, and not just point fingers at a tool. What if everyone gangs up on the grigri and Petzl decides to stop making them due to losing money from law suits? |
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Well said Ana Tine... may be not what certain folks want to hear but what they need to hear |
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JohnnyG wrote: O.k. so I did a quick google search and I only found maybe two incidents of people being dropped. One guy said he was dropped but offered zero detail another account started "So I was there but..." One guy chimed in that they dropped a grigri on his big toe. A woman complianed about her hair getting stuck. Other people with stuck ropes. And one mysterious report of a cut rope with no details; people suspected gravel got caught in the grigri. So--anyone else ever had a grigri failure? or know of specific cases? Could these "tons" of grigri failures be just a myth?Most incidents that happen in the gym dont get reported online Heres a quite from bisharat, who knows a thing or two about sport climbing, gyms and grigris Yet not a month goes by that you dont hear about a belayer dropping a climber, despite using a Grigri. Some of these rules apply specifically to the Grigri and to sport-climbing situations. I highly recommend folks read his article on grigri use eveningsends.com/climbing/n… There have been threads on here where folks have witnessed multiple different belayers drop folks in the gym with grigris Heres another accident that is almost exactly the same of the OPs FALL ON ROCK, POOR COMMUNICATION, INADEQUATE BELAY - DISTRACTED Kentucky, Red River Gorge, Muir Valley On March 21,I took a lead fall, landing at the base of the climb Suppress the Rage (5.12a) located at the Sunny Side. I was at the second-to-last bolt when I decided to rest before making the last hard move. I must admit that I started climbing kind of suddenly, maybe surprising my belayer. Anyway, when I was less than one meter above the bolt I fell off. Before I had time to realize what was happening, I found myself screaming and hitting the ground with my right leg and then my butt. Fortunately the rope got tight at the very last second, so I didnt fully impact the ground. But still, I broke my pelvis and two vertebrae. Analysis Here is why I think this happened. First of all, my belayer got distracted as soon as I decided to rest for a few seconds. I saw him talking with people while I started falling. Second, there was too much slack in the rope, because it doesnt make sense to take a 12-meter fall, when youre only one meter above the bolt. Third, he told me that, as soon as he realized I was falling, he grabbed the rope above and below the Grigri, compromising its activation. The moral is to pay attention to what you are doing. Always confirm that your belayer knows how to belay properly. The Grigri can be a deceiving belay device to use for the inexperienced. Some think it works by itself and dont pay attention to how it functions in the correct way! Ive been climbing for more than ten years and consider myself to be experienced. This was the first time climbing with this person, so we didnt know each other well enough, and there was probably lack of communication. It wouldnt happen to me with my usual climbing mates. (Source: Edited from a report by Francesco Peci) publications.americanalpine… Remember that most incidents, indoors and out, often dont get reported online There is a false sense of security with the grigri that they are "safe" regardless of the belayer ... They arent, they are only as "safe" as the person using it |