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Opening a guiding service, looking for tips on working with my insurance company...

Original Post
Kristen Fiore · · Burlington, VT · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 3,383

Hi there, thanks for clicking...

So run a summer camp in the Adirondack's and next summer we are starting a climbing program. (Don't worry we are far from Keene Valley, Lake George, and Poke-O. I promise no to take up any classic spots! :P)

Anyway, this also includes myself now having the opportunity to do a little bit of guiding on the camp's insurance the rest of the year. Nothing big but just a little here and there for some extra cash and to keep my skills sharp. So far I have myself and one other committed AMGA SPI so we've got that side covered.

The questions I have are mostly surrounding insurance.

I'm in the midst of writing our policies and procedures handbook. Making sure we never tie those pesky useless endknots or bother to yell "rope" before throwing down a heap of 12mm top rope line off a 100 ft. cliff.

You know, the usual.

So anyway, the questions:

1. How do you deal with insurance companies/underwriters who clearly don't grasp climbing safety concepts? Has anyone here had success asking for exceptions? Specifics I can think of are that my insurance company outlines that participants must be at least 13 years old, I need an instructor at the top AND bottom of each climb, and we are required to retire all climbing ropes after 2 years (knowing the amount of traffic these ropes will see we could easily get 4 years out of them). Anyone just put what they wanted in the manual and had the insurance company just approve it even though it's not what the UW said they would approve?

2. What do your waivers look like? Anyone be willing to share an example with me? (For REFERENCE only. I won't copy it or take any logos, contact info etc...)

3. Anyone on here work for a camp or organization that uses a different insurance company for climbing than for other operations? My incentive to stay with my current company lies only in that it has major financial upside.

4. Out of curiosity, what do you pay for liability insurance per year? I just got the quote back from our provider and it seems completely reasonable but I'm wondering what it would cost through other companies. (Perhaps ones which specialize in climbing and would therefore eliminate question #1) Obviously, feel free to PM me if you would feel more comfortable instead of posting figures on the forum.

James Sweeney · · Roselle Park, NJ · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 30

Kris,

Check your PMs

Jim

Brendan Magee · · Parker, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0

Contact the AMGA about who they use for insurance. I forget the name of the company but I believe they are based in PA and they work extensively with guiding companies.

As far as waivers go, most guide companies have blank waivers available on the websites. I'd still consult a lawyer that specializes in liabilities for small businesses.

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346

The at-height company I have experience with just uses standard general liability commercial insurance. Nothing special. That insurance covers both recreational and commercial at-height services. I cant say much beyond that though as I have not read the policy.

Did your insurance company specifically say you have to retire ropes after two years, have guides at the top and bottom, ect, or are those just hypotheticals?

As far as wavers go, look at gym wavers. An outdoor guiding company would differ a bit, but it will give you an idea.

Kristen Fiore · · Burlington, VT · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 3,383

This has all been super helpful. Thanks for the replies.

20kn: Yeah those examples sadly are specifics. They give you a baseline of what they approve from which you write a policies and procedures handbook which they then check and approve. Then the inspection basically just makes sure you are doing what you said you would in the plan.

All the references people have given are great, just talking with other industry professionals is such a help.

-Kris

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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