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American Fork DUI Checkpoint

Altered Ego · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 0

Because they are not there to help you. They serve and protect the establishment which pays them with funds stolen from the american people. Same goes for the military. Truth comes out in protest. Ever seen police or military protect citizens from the establishment?

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
engineer1984 wrote: And you know what, it's okay for them to not know the law. The law is extremely complex with this court decision having an effect on that law and blah blah.
That is like saying it's okay for a surgeon to be incompetent in his practice because surgery is complicated and the field is always changing. If cops dont want to study hard and understand the complexities of the law and their job, Wal-Mart offers plenty of positions that dont require you to think much. There are plenty of jobs that are far more complicated than being a cop, but we dont openly accept job incompetence in those fields simply because the job is complex.

Anyway, this is all you need to know about talking to the police. This video is well worth the watch. It's long but it's good.

youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t…

Skip to 8 min if you want the short version.
Doug Meneke · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 10

I got a ticket in Massachusetts for legally passing a car in a passing lane. It was a "civil" fine, as I broke no law (no speeding, swerving, etc). The officer said "after I turned my lights on and was passing other vehicles to get to you, they were all pointing at you!!! I asked "what did I do wrong", he said "you can fight this if you want, but I doubt you will win".

I tried to fight it...and lost. I asked the "magistrate" (not a judge) what I did wrong, and he said he is not allowed to discuss the merits. What a friggin rip-off!!!

Christian RodaoBack · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 1,486

Yeah, legally you can keep your mouth shut, but if you pull up to a legal DUI checkpoint (based on Sitz Supreme Court case presumably) reeking like a brewery I could see them being able to use that as reasonable suspicion to ask you to blow.

In AZ, you don't blow, you lose your license for a year (or 90 days + interlock) automatically and may be convicted just on the officer's testimony anyway.

All this can happen without you saying a word.

Eric G. · · Saratoga Springs, NY · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 70
20 kN wrote: That is like saying it's okay for a surgeon to be incompetent in his practice because surgery is complicated and the field is always changing.
Even though I do not trust the police as a rule, this is a terrible analogy. Cops may make reasonable mistakes of law (Supreme Court actually just held that) -- they are not lawyers or judges. And, in any case, lawyers and judges make mistakes of law even with the opportunity to conduct research before acting.

It is literally impossible to know, for example, every statute, rule, regulation, ordinance, and whatever in NYC. The PO are enforcers, not walking compilations of law.
20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
Eric G. wrote: Even though I do not trust the police as a rule, this is a terrible analogy. Cops may make reasonable mistakes of law (Supreme Court actually just held that) -- they are not lawyers or judges. And, in any case, lawyers and judges make mistakes of law even with the opportunity to conduct research before acting. It is literally impossible to know, for example, every statute, rule, regulation, ordinance, and whatever in NYC. The PO are enforcers, not walking compilations of law.
Yes, everyone makes mistakes, even brain surgeons and nuclear physicists. I also understand that no one can understand every law. But we are not talking about getting officers to memorize case law from back when they made you walk the plank if the captain found you guilty. Take something as basic as civil rights. Many officers dont even know that. For example, try pulling out a camera and filming police while they are talking to you. It wont be long before one tells you that you cannot record him, even though it's legal in 48 states.
Eric G. · · Saratoga Springs, NY · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 70

20Kn, I fully agree. The real inexcusable issue is not knowing or respecting civil rights.

Andy Whicker · · Ogden, UT · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 31

I guess my point was more that when they don't know the law, they should tell you they don't.

You better hope that a surgeon knows what he doesn't know.

I'm presented with things I don't know the answer to everyday. I'm partially paid to know how to get that answer. I'm partially paid to have a lot of answers stored up too. But, I'm not a walking encyclopedia on engineering. I'm not expecting cops to be the same with laws.

And laws are NOT simple. They are designed to be complicated. You'd have to hire attorneys to be policemen if you wanted them to know all the laws.

As far as laws they ordinarily enforce? Yes, they should be experts. The video taping / audio taping law is 100% crystal clear to them, I'm sure. I can't help but imagine that they are all trained on exactly what is legal and not legal when it comes to recording. But they have a whole hell of a lot of incentive to get the civilian to quit doing it. So they'll lie through their teeth to get you to quit recording.

But that's the problem, isn't it?

Andy Whicker · · Ogden, UT · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 31
Dylan B. wrote: ...Unfortunately, our Supreme Court disagrees with me, and just held that a cop can pull you over if he thinks what you're doing is illegal, even if it's not illegal...
Ugh..

That sucks.
Christian RodaoBack · · Tucson, AZ · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 1,486

That's great, everybody has the right to their normative opinion on how things should be in FantasyLand, but then there's the actual practical issue of minimizing the damage caused to you by a bad encounter with a cop.

Like this law school student getting mouthy w the cop, filming, etc..then gets his nutsack smashed for his troubles.

Yeah, the DUI will get thrown out, he'll probably get a bunch of money from the APD, etc.. but I'd still rather have both testicles intact.

krqe.com/2014/10/30/case-di…

Scottmx426 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 0

Mr. Jones: "The truth is"? Which truth, yours or mine...or the group of people I just polled? And did you call me a middle aged short hair? I had long hair, beard and drove a beat up '59 Chevy in high school and didn't have such experiences. 50/50 chance must be based on some equally rough statistics. Perhaps others have different reality than obtuse ones! I work daily next to law enforcement and regularly see them respectful, professional and courteous. But this is just my experience along with the many others in my dept (not police dept).

"But I have the responsibility" to remind the cops not to ignore the law. Giggle. Seems like someone is paranoid and subscribes to much of what they hear or see on tv. You realize the fallacy of calling all law enforcement abussive.

True story: several intoxicate rowdy friends getting a ride home from the bars. Car passes through DUI checkpoint. Designated driver claims sobriety and officer checks IDs and says have a great night, drive safe. Waves them through. NO cavity searches....Imagine.

I in no way condone unprofessional behavior or abuse of power by a sworn officer who takes an oath.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/12/21/police-shooting-florida/20723027/

Today a Florida police office was shot and then run over with a car by a serial criminal who didn't want to go back to prison. The officer died of his injuries. Perhaps this explains why police officers don't automatically trust everything one tells them. They have a higher exposure to shitbag lowlifes than anyone.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
Scottmx426 wrote:Today a Florida police office was shot and then run over with a car by a serial criminal who didn't want to go back to prison. The officer died of his injuries. Perhaps this explains why police officers don't automatically trust everything one tells them. They have a higher exposure to shitbag lowlifes than anyone.
yet the press and liberals everywhere are dragging them through the mud for not playing nice with the shitbag lowlifes, what a fucked up thing to do. Even the mayor of NYC turned on his officers after the Garner fiasco and we all know how many shitbag lowlifes they have to deal with there. Did anyone see Garners rap sheet?
Jon Frisby · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 270
Mark Lewis wrote:So we were up in the Hell area on Saturday 21st. We planned on spending the entire day up in that area. It was idyllic; perfect weather and there wasn't another soul up there. The people in our group kept making incredulous comments about how it was unusual that on the last holiday weekend of summer that we were the only group up there. It was perplexing, until we began to notice in the late afternoon that up-canyon traffic was backing up and in a stop & go mode from what we could see of the road. Eventually we walked down from the Hell area and noticed a massive DUI checkpoint had been setup, taking the entire Hell area parking pull out. There were probably around 40 police vehicles, RV's, etc. And be warned...if you don't have that clean cut Mormon look, but rather look like a climber, you'll have higher than average odds of being pulled over and tested, vehicle searched, etc. Interesting experience for our group. We were able to have the Hell area all to ourselves on a busy weekend but then had to be stopped and harassed by police at the end of the day! Any other climbers get caught up in that checkpoint? Stories? Has anyone ran across police setting up checkpoints like this in AF in the past?
Randomness essentially makes it OK. If they were stopping only a certain type, it would be a problem
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northern Utah & Idaho
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