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tying in direct at mid rope with this type of fig 8

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
wfscot wrote: Any concern that the rope could slide on a serious whipper?
tie an overhand/fig8 as an isolation loop before using the girth hitch and its fine ... adjust that knot closer once you step through

if you need to transition to rappel off hanging belays ... i dont recommend using hitches you need to step through, its a bit awkward

an overhand/fig8 with both strands rethreaded and a locker clipped to isolate the loop is fine

one thig to keep in mind is to keep track of which strand is which especially if you are using half rope techniques ... i like to clove one side to a locker on my belay loop or top tie in to ID em easily

i use these methods to bring up 2 seconds on a single rope on pitches < 30m long all the time ... in this case its very important to keep track of which strand yr being belayed upon ... i clip the non load strand to a locker on my haul loop as well to keep it out of the way and to make sure i know to clip it only as a directional for the second

a figure 8 on a bight with 2 opposed lockers will also work just fine

there are many ways to skin cats ... as long as they all taste good in the end

;)
David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70

I either use a bowline on the bight:



or an overhand backed up with half a double fisherman's:



See
www.multipitchclimb.com > knots appendix > how to tie in the middle of the rope
for instructions on tying them.

The bowline is ideal if you are falling off a lot, but a bit of a pain if you are having to untie a lot during the day. The bowline is also very neat, and just feels super safe.
David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70
Trav W. wrote:I tend to tie in with this knot when tying in to the middle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfuuuW-2fes
Hi, do you know of any pull-test data on that knot? Thanks.
Joe Freeman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 355

Have any of you fallen hard on the retraced overhand on a bite with a back up? I wonder if it gets pretty tight. I an guessing not with four strands winding all around it. But I do know a normal overhand on a bight gets pretty damn tight, but this ought to be quite different by way of the volume? Seems beefy when I tie it up and uses less rope than doing the same with a figure eight as it has one less turn.

wivanoff · · Northeast, USA · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 674
Joe Freeman wrote:Have any of you fallen hard on the retraced overhand on a bite with a back up?
Used it. Never took a lead fall on it. It's not new. See the 1972 Chouinard Catalog page 27 fig 9 climbaz.com/chouinard72/gra…
David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70
Joe Freeman wrote:Have any of you fallen hard on the retraced overhand on a bite with a back up? I wonder if it gets pretty tight. I an guessing not with four strands winding all around it. But I do know a normal overhand on a bight gets pretty damn tight, but this ought to be quite different by way of the volume? Seems beefy when I tie it up and uses less rope than doing the same with a figure eight as it has one less turn.
Yes.
Works fine for me, but I'm very light.
If you plan to fall, use the bowline on a bight - it also looks cooler
David Coley · · UK · Joined Oct 2013 · Points: 70

Here's another good alliterative (sorry if this was mentioned above):

www.multipitchclimbing.com

wivanoff · · Northeast, USA · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 674
David Coley wrote:Here's another good alliterative (sorry if this was mentioned above):
That's what I mean by "Although, I have occasionally used a bowline on a bight and clipped the loop." I like it better than stepping though a loop. Your picture explains it much better than I did.
Craig Childre · · Lubbock, TX · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 4,860

Nice Coley! I dig that far more than the Alpine Girth. Elegant solution.

Those concerned that an Alpine Girth will slip during a hard whip. How exactly? I see no foundation for this concern at all. Loading one strand can not cause the knot to roll or slip. Almost the exact opposite is the case. The heavier the loading on this style of knot, the more difficult it becomes to untie, which is it's major drawback. Tied using webbing, you lose some of the strength rating, but using a solid lead line the loss is minimal. This point is almost auxiliary now, as the Bowline on a bit looks to be the superior method. I'm more interested in the reasons why. Curious if nothing else.

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

the girth hitch is easier to tie and remember, even with the isolation loop, and harder to screw up ... especially for modern climbers who often dont know the bowline (i myself almost never use the bowline)

when yr cold, tired, hungry, in the dark and under nasty conditions ... thats a not insignificant advantage

thats also one reason why in climbing we use prussik/kleimheist/autoblock rather than blake hitches ...

some climbing knots are things you might use once or twice a year ... and we all know many folks dont really practice

;)

Jbroseph · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 0

I use that tie in all the time.

Clint Helander · · Anchorage, AK · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 612

everyone has responded and validated the original knot, but why try and reinvent the wheel? Yes it works. Is it any better than the alpine girth hitch? No.

Brie Abram · · Celo, NC · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 493

The first sentence of Joe's original post says he doesn't want to use a carabiner. That excludes a lot of y'all's suggestions.

Joe Freeman · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 355
Brian Abram wrote:The first sentence of Joe's original post says he doesn't want to use a carabiner. That excludes a lot of y'all's suggestions.
I don't mind clipping off the loop to prevent untying, but do not want to be suspended by the carabiner so yea a few are out, but its good to have all these possibilities when climbing.

I actually think the retraced overhand looks really good. Easy not to mess up tying it, and uses a fair amount of rope only when using an 8mm rope. I appreciate all the ideas and wisdom from everyone.

Hiked up to a crag today with my dogs and my wife (raining so just hiking). It was a few miles and about 2 hours round trip with like 2200 feet of vertical gain. Another place where 5 pounds less gear would be nice. Can't wait till it dries to try out my new ultralight rope system!
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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