Mountain Project Logo

How did YOU become a guide?

The Blueprint Part Dank · · FEMA Region VIII · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 460

What's the difference between a rock guide and a large pizza?

The pizza can feed a family of four.

What's the difference between a rock guide and a a rooster?

A rooster clucks defiance... [a rock guide f$&ks the clients].

Full disclosure, I stole those jokes from Ron Funderburke, the super cool, supreme bad ass that I was fortunate enough to take my SPI course with back in 2010.

At that point in time. I was asking the same question, how can I be a guide? As has been started here already, getting a WFR and SPI is the absolute best way to start. But after that you need to ask some long hard questions. Why do you want to guide? Are you okay with a job that requires a high level of skill and professionalism, yet pays little more than working at McDonalds for 80% of the guides out there? Will you still enjoy climbing when it becomes your job?

I decided that, after pondering those questions, the answer for me was no. But if you can truly and honestly answer a yes to those. Then you can become a guide. It's just going to take a lot of work and dedication. Take the SPI course/exam, get your WFR. And then start contacting all the guide companies in your area. Tell them your story, and that you would like to VOLUNTEER to help with classes, courses, whatever. Pitch it as a quasi-internship. If you contact enough companies, one Will be stoked to have some free labor. Fit it into your schedule and do it during your days off. Be cool, nice, helpful and LISTEN AND LEARN. After a few months of that, you'll have both a better idea as to whether or not it's for you, as well as the requirements for success in the industry. The opportunity to network will be helpful as well.

Maybe that company likes you and decides to hire you, or maybe they can't really afford another guide, but your experience will pad your resume and make you a more attractive find for another company.

JPVallone · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 195

what do a mountain guide and a condom have in common?

Safer with, more pleasure without!

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492
rgold wrote:I almost never dealt with groups. Two clients max most of the time. The pendulum has swung so far the other way that we now have the AMGA SPI certification, which certifies folks to do what I never did as a matter of principle.
The SPI cert fits nicely with group guiding (think Boy Scouts, corporate and college groups, "active singles" organizations, and the like), which accounts for a huge part of today's climbing scene.

(note - I'm quoting RG here but am saying this more for the OP than the current/former guides in this thread)
Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492
The Blueprint Part Dank wrote:As has been started here already, getting a WFR and SPI is the absolute best way to start. But after that you need to ask some long hard questions. Why do you want to guide? Are you okay with a job that requires a high level of skill and professionalism, yet pays little more than working at McDonalds for 80% of the guides out there? Will you still enjoy climbing when it becomes your job?
Given that SPI and WFR will set you back $1200-1400, I think it would be wise to confront those questions BEFORE getting those certs.
The Blueprint Part Dank · · FEMA Region VIII · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 460
Gunkiemike wrote: Given that SPI and WFR will set you back $1200-1400, I think it would be wise to confront those questions BEFORE getting those certs.
Not necessarily, those courses are beneficial to any climber
Craig Childre · · Lubbock, TX · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 4,860

Know this:

The more you get paid to do something, the less likely you are to do it for free.

David Lane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 15

Climbing the same route 20 times a season? Ha, Ha.

Lets see, I guided after 6, lets say conservatively, x2/week, thats 8 times a month x 6 months = 48 times a summer x 9 years = about 432 times. AND THATS A CONSERVATIVE GUESS!!

Granted there was lots of other stuff that I did, but that gives you an idea of what you're looking at. Easy routes are your mainstay and anything that you would be psyched on is probably not guided as often.

marty funkhouser · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 20
JPVallone wrote:what do a mountain guide and a condom have in common?
They both strive to protect the tip

Neither works well with an oil based lube

Both have gone to filthy places to smuggle heroin

Asian ones are smaller

Both help prevent a mess

What else?
John McNamee · · Littleton, CO · Joined Jul 2002 · Points: 1,690

The first step is to take make sure you meet all the perquisites and then take your first course. You need a solid background. You don't need to be a star at anything, just solid.

After that it took me about 6 years to get UIAGM qualified. I was living in NZ at the time, but was working around the world. I'm familiar with the AMGA as I did some assessment work for them when they were growing up.

I never experienced any shortage of work and the money was a lot better than people on this site would make you think. I was booked up years in advance.

I retired when I was 40 as the travel, 6 to 9 months a year just got too much for family life. I don't ever regret my time guiding, the experience is something that I will always cherish, but remember that guiding isn't climbing, you are there for the customer not you. The hardest thing is that you are away a lot from loved ones.

Mr. Wonderful · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 10

Here's some killers:

You get hurt - you dont work - you dont get paid.

I've seen several guides wash out from injuries like tendonitis or bum shoulders.

Also the gear that gets lost, dropped, stuck, or ruined is your gear so the replacement cost is yours.

John McNamee · · Littleton, CO · Joined Jul 2002 · Points: 1,690

If a client drops a piece of gear or couldn't get it and we didn't have time, I would ask them to pay for it. Never had a client turn me down. Most of the time I got cost price on gear or I was sponsored.

I always had insurance and if I got hurt it would pay medical costs as well as a small living wage. I don't know how this works here.

I was climbing with a friend who was guide a couple months ago and he had a ground fall. His worldwide medical and evacuation insurance (through the IFMGA) paid for the helicopter evac from Moab to Grand Junction, 10 days stay in hospital, for his wife to travel from NZ to USA and all other expenses and then flights home. They also paid for my time that I spent with him in Grand Junction including hotel fees.

I suspect guiding here is more difficult and not as lucrative due to the access issues. However, I think if you got internationally qualified and worked in Canada, Europe etc., you could make a good living.

Jon Frisby · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 270

Yeah I was curious about that. Does anyone recommended these courses if you have no intention of guiding for pay?

The Blueprint Part Dank · · FEMA Region VIII · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 460
Jon Frisby wrote:Yeah I was curious about that. Does anyone recommended these courses if you have no intention of guiding for pay?
I never made enough money guiding to pay off my courses, and I don't regret them one bit. The AMGA courses teach an incredibly efficient and professional skill set, all from an instructor who is going to be extremely dialed and on-point. I would be absolutely shocked if even an incredibly accomplished climber with many years on the rock under his/her belt could possibly come away from an AMGA course without a lot of great new tricks up their sleeves.
Mr. Wonderful · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2014 · Points: 10
John McNamee wrote: I always had insurance
All the guides I knew didnt even have car insurance much less medical insurance.
Avi Katz · · Seattle, WA · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 260

I got an AA in Outdoor Education at Central Wyoming College in Riverton, WY. Then I got a job at the University of Wyoming Outdoor Program, and they paid for my SPI course. After a season of teaching climbing there, they helped me pay for my SPI exam.
I left UW to work for Jon Tierney and Acadia Mountain Guides as a SPI. I ran top rope parties on many of the same climbs most of the summer. I also had the opportunity to grow, make mistakes, learn a buttload of new tricks, and discover new terrain I could guide in to avoid the clusters.
Last year I took my Rock Guides Course (used to be the Rock Instructor) in Eldo. I'll still need to complete the the Rock Instructor Assessment to be a certified Rock Instructor.
Now I guide seasonally for 4-5 different companies around the country.

Things I wish people would have told me:
-If you want to guide because you love climbing and want to get paid for it, DON'T. Guides do not always climb and if you come into it with that attitude you will be severely disappointed.
-It is exhausting. Keeping a smile on while entertaining clients, building anchors, climbing, and monitoring every safety aspect at once is tiring. Even the "easy" days are draining.
-It is really easy to get burnt out on climbing when guiding a lot.
-Money can be tough. Insurance/benefits are rare (at least at my level). Many SPIs start around $100/dy. If you are an efficient guide and are good at explaining why to your clients $100 tips are not unheard of.
-Not all companies require a guiding certification, but all will require a WFR or WFA.
-You will guide in rain, snow, and heinously hot temps. Your clients will generally have dibs on the only raincoat (obviously yours) extra hat, or the last glob of sunscreen.
-Learn to treat adults like children, but how to make them feel like they are Tommy Caldwell.
-Lots of guiding is seasonal. Unless you are interested in guiding ice/snow/skiing or have a another job, prepare for a dirtbag lifestyle.
-Some recreational climbers will treat you like you have the plague, turn up their noses at your systems, and try to poach climbs out from under you.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
Avi Katz wrote: -Recreational climbers will treat you like you have the plague, turn up their noses at your systems, and try to poach climbs out from under you.
ahh ha! so thats how it is?
marty funkhouser · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 20

If you wanna be a guide in 'merica then pick a pursuit that millionaires and billionaires partake in. Something like heli fly fishing or super posh heli skiing. If you insist on being a rock guide then figure out how to do it in the socialist hell that is Europe so you'll at least get a decent paycheck.

Avi Katz · · Seattle, WA · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 260
Miike wrote: ahh ha! so thats how it is?
  • Edited to a less generalizing statement.

Disclosure: All info here is my own opinion formed from 15 years of climbing and 7 years of climbing instruction.
Avi Katz · · Seattle, WA · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 260
marty funkhouser wrote:If you wanna be a guide in 'merica then pick a pursuit that millionaires and billionaires partake in. Something like heli fly fishing or super posh heli skiing. If you insist on being a rock guide then figure out how to do it in the socialist hell that is Europe so you'll at least get a decent paycheck.
On this topic:
Guiding certs add up. But is it cheaper than college or even a trade school? Yes. Factoring in the idea that between every cert/course there is a prerequisite of days guided in new terrain/personal climbing achievements, it is completely feasible to afford certifications. Think of it as an investment. Gotta spend money to make money. If a never spent $800 to get an SPI cert I would never be the filthy rich guiding mogul I am today.
max hux · · Portland, OR · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 75

It makes sense to me that you'd be dirt poor if you're just a guide working topropes at the local crag, but what about mountain guides?

Wondering about the PNW here, where glacial slogs, cragging, alpine rock/snow and Alaska (Denali) expeditions are all common venues. Plus that's just the summer, not including international stuff or skiing/avy training. Seems like you could do pretty well in that case...though you're already out camping most of the year, I guess that's dirtbagging in a sense :)

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
Post a Reply to "How did YOU become a guide?"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.