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How did YOU become a guide?

Original Post
da toz · · Durango, CO · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 115

i would really like to break into the world of guiding, and I'm curious; what was your first step?? What was one or some of the things that you did to help you become a guide?? How did you legitimize yourself? I would love to hear any bits of information, personal anecdotes, or ancient wisdom... Cheers!!!

Toz

marty funkhouser · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 20

1st step = vow of poverty

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346

Knowing somebody.

Caleb Padgett · · Rockville, utah · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 85

Getting a WFR and SPI certifications are a good starting point.

RDW · · Toronto, Canada · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 185

Not a guide myself, but I've employed my fair share.

I would check out the guide association websites - they've got a ton of info on training, certifications, and directories of guides if you're in need of a mentor.

ACMG (Canada)
AMGA (USA)

CritConrad · · Bend, OR · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 646

I started with an internship with the company I worked for right out of college. Got a degree in parks rec and tourism and already had an extensive climbing background.

Max Tepfer · · Bend, OR · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 2,513

I worked as an outdoor educator (NOLS) for years and then took AMGA (AGC, RGC) courses in the terrain I wanted to work in. Shortly after that, I got hired by the company that I work for presently. Continuing with further certification through the AMGA has led directly to more work volume and variety.

Someone's almost certainly going to say that professional training to become a guide is cost-prohibitive and is therefor wrong. In response to this I'd say that you should think of it like going to college or trade school. That's exactly what you're doing: learning a trade. Even if you're a very experienced climber, there's actually very little direct translation between what you do climbing recreationally and guiding professionally.

Tico · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 0

Max got thrown a bone, he couldn't climb a ladder if there was a hot Nordic chick waiting at the top.

Ralph Kolva · · Pine, CO · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 210

As a first step I would suggest you go to a local crag and find the biggest noob that has no idea of what the frack they are doing, then ask them to belay you. If that doesn't bother you too much then pursue the advise the other posters.

I once thought about guiding but after partnering with some real cases I decided I liked having a solid belay or just sacked up and soloed. Oh yeah, be prepared to carry all the gear your clients aren't in shape to carry.

JPVallone · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2004 · Points: 195

I sold my soul!

da toz · · Durango, CO · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 115

thanks for your input y'all. everyone has good points here!! to echo Ralph, i've always been curious how the whole "having a complete unexperienced person lead belay" thing goes down... seems kinda sketch, but i'm sure if you're guiding, you're on a route that you are super solid on

keep it comin'

David Lane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 15

I volunteered for the outdoor program while in college. Got a job guiding after and then 4 years into that decided to pursue AMGA ARG cert. I've now been guiding, professionally for 16 years.
First I would recommend that you build an incredible personal climbing resume, experience in various terrain helps a lot. Having a significant amount of personal climbing history will make you a more prepared trainee.

Oh ya! Sell your soul, prepare to not climb much for personal enjoyment (unless you dont need to make money but just want to pretend to have a job) and be poor.

I've just retired from 'full time' guiding after 16 years. I don't think there is a guide company out there that could offer me what I was making as a guide in Yosemite.

Good luck!

rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

A reminiscence about guiding.

I guided to help finance grad school, back in the wild and wooly days of no standards or certification, when the only skill required was the ability to go to a stationary store and order business cards.

Did a lot in the Gunks, but also the Wind Rivers, Needles in SD, and Red Rock, and some places I won't mention. I had lots of climbing skill (relative to the times) and a very good knowledge of technical things (again relative to the times), but you couldn't compare my knowledge to the specialized knowledge a modern guide has by virtue of all the courses. And of course I had less equipment to work with (no cams, nothing like a grigri for example).

I had some very good experiences and some bad ones with clients. Overall I liked it, but I can't say it was always pleasant. There were days when I couldn't wait to get away from the crag, and other days when I happily put in far more hours than the clock required.

Granting the various technical skills, it's a people game, and the guide has to understand that he or she is climbing for the client. Folks talk about guiding as doing something you love, which is partly true. Perhaps a bit more true is doing something someone else loves. You'll do a lot of easy climbs, and if you work in one particular area as most guides do, you'll end up knowing the classics in your sleep.

I didn't climb as well for myself when I guided. For one thing, an injury, even a small one, meant lost income, so I felt I had to be cautious all the time. The leader must not fall because he might be out a lotta bucks if he does. Not a recipe for cutting-edge endeavors, at least not for me. For another thing, the portion of the diet given over to easy climbs made it harder for me to operate marginally; I got used to feeling super solid and couldn't always transition to being insecure.

As for the money, well, for me it was always a supplementary income, I never relied on it entirely and couldn't possibly have lived on just what I made from guiding, especially if the weather was bad one summer. I had at least some minimal health insurance as a grad student and, as was common at the time, absolutely no liability insurance whatsoever. When I looked into it at the time, it would have taken everything I earned to pay the premiums; I understand things are much better now, but probably much worse where health insurance is concerned, even with Obamacare (if it lasts...)

There were things I really liked about it (see, for example, supertopo.com/climbers-foru…), but at as grad school drew to a close I left the profession with no regrets. It was, at the time, just professionalizing itself, and I was actually a part of the early formative days of the AMGA. But having your livelihood depend so directly on good tip-to-toe physical health was a real worry I was happy to be rid of, and by and large I found that I enjoyed climbing more when I didn't have to do it to put bread on the table.

John Farrell · · Phoenix, AZ · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 85

The "Sarcastic" comment by marty isn't sarcastic at all, it's the truth. The reason why I part-time guide is for the enjoyment of giving people their first experience rock climbing, I don't do it for the money. I always joke that my main job just supports my fun job of guiding.

I don't know about your area, but here there is a high turn over of guides and companies. I got hired after I got my AMGA SPI. I have my Red Cross CPR and First Aid, not the WFA or WFR. I am on my third guiding company too, from them going out of business, run by drama queens, or disputes between partners.

I get the feeling that the guiding companies don't really care about my AMGA Certification, it's more about the first aid. All of them required an apprentice outing with a guide before I went out on my own with clients.

Question : What's the difference between a sausage pizza and a guide?

Answer : A sausage pizza will feed the family for a night.

John...

Chris Graham · · Bartlett, NH · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 545

I think the question should be WHY???? lol

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

Definition of guiding - soloing with a handicap.

David Lane · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 15

You know how copper wire was invented?

kdionise · · Arizona · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 15

Two guides fighting over a penny?

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492
kdionise wrote:Two guides fighting over a penny?
Ha, I love it!

To the OP - as RG said, it's not about the climbing, it's a people thing. Let me suggest you ask yourself: do you get nearly as much satisfaction from talking newbies through their first rock challenges as say, on-sighting a new route for yourself? If the answer is no, maybe you're not cut out for a long guiding career. It's a fact for most guides - you're climbing (or worse, not climbing, just belaying) the same 5.5 twenty times a year. And while you're doing that, your fitness is slipping away. Then on the weekday you had planned to climb, it rains.

AMGA cert(s) aside, know that one also needs a state license to guide in New York. But getting that is no big deal compared to WFR, or Rock Guide certification.
rgold · · Poughkeepsie, NY · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 526

One of the things I did as a guide (working for myself only and so setting the rules), something that has gone utterly and completely out of fashion in the guiding world, is that I always insisted a climb was a climb and had to be lead and followed. No top-roping ever, and we always went to the top of the cliff. This did not prevent the conditioning decline Mike speaks of, but it did mean I climbed more, perhaps a lot more, than a modern guide. It also meant, I think, that my clients were a lot better at following pitches, dealing with gear, and belaying the leader, since they had to do this every single time they climbed, from their very first time out.

Obviously and to my financial detriment, I almost never dealt with groups. Two clients max most of the time.

The pendulum has swung so far the other way that we now have the AMGA SPI certification, which certifies folks to do what I never did as a matter of principle.

Stagg54 Taggart · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2006 · Points: 10

Disclaimer: I have never worked as a guide.

However I am friends with quite a few. There are still pockets where you can get hired without an AMGA (or whatever other gorups are out there) certification. Usually you start as an apprentice - ie. run up the trail early and "monopolize" all the toprope anchors before anyone else gets there, but it gets your foot in the door. You may end up doing that anyway even with certification. I will say most places require some sort of WFA training, usually WFR. It's worth taking that anyway as a simple recreational climber.

If you stay local to one area, I would spend as much time talking to the guides down there and becoming friends with them and whoever they work for. Get to know the ins and outs and see if you like it. As others have mentioned, it does have some downsides. Also figure out when they do their hiring. Most places hire early spring...but I'd start inquiring at the end of the previous season.

Another comment I would add is to work on your people skills. Generally way more important than the technical skills (as long as you are safe). Most people think because they are a good climber they would be a good guide. Not entirely true...

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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