Cordelette as a Single Strand
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I was reading through Chris McNamara's book on big wall climbing and, when using a cordelette, he recommends to "make sure the cordelette is not a single continuous loop and instead is a single strand with two figure-eights on a bite at either end." (See photo.) |
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The way Chris McNamara has it pictured, the strength of the anchor is the same as a loop since both ends are clipped to the same piece. |
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I have been using your suggested single strand cordalette scheme for many years now. |
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That looks pretty smart to me - your arguments make total sense! I'll have to try this next time I'm building anchors. |
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I've transitioned over to the single strand method to be give myself the reach without having to carry such a long cord when that is necessary. The one negative (though it's not a major decision-altering thing) I've noticed is that it there isn't a secure top shelf available like the double-strand unless you shorten it like the photo you have. |
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Padraig wrote:there isn't a secure top shelf available like the double-strand unless you shorten it like the photo you have.That's a good observation. I hadn't thought of that. Like you said, it may not be a deal breaker, but good to keep in mind. |
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Greeley wrote: That's a good observation. I hadn't thought of that. Like you said, it may not be a deal breaker, but good to keep in mind.Why would clipping the center loop and one of the outside legs not work for you? |
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I've been practicing with this method and another that is similar quite a bit, lately. Clipping a 30ft strand of 7mm cordalette to anchors and pulling the strands between the anchors into bights, masterpointing them with a figure eight and using the rest of the cordalette tails to fisherman safety knot immediately over that 8 just like you would when tying your harness into a toprope or before leading. A LOT easier and more customizable (length) than fisherman knotting the ends to close a strand of cordalette into a loop. |
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wivanoff wrote: Why would clipping the center loop and one of the outside legs not work for you?It would work, but it wouldn't be as redundant. If the pro connected to the center loop or the one single leg failed, then you'd only be backed up by one piece instead of two. |
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If one absolutely needs a "shelf" one can be improvised on a single strand cordalette by placing a carabiner through the masterpoint knot and using that carabiner as the shelf for clipping in your second or whatever. |
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Splitting a hair that really isn't an issue to anchor safety. |
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Greeley wrote: It would work, but it wouldn't be as redundant. If the pro connected to the center loop or the one single leg failed, then you'd only be backed up by one piece instead of two.How many levels of redundancy do you need? You could say the same thing about having only two loops in your masterpoint when using that alternate setup. I don't see anything wrong with that alternate setup. Although, personally I don't pre-tie any knots in my cordelette. I bring the free ends together and incorporate them into the masterpoint knot. If I use that alternate setup, I'll clove the ends to the anchor carabiners. But, mostly, I just use my climbing rope. |
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Marty C wrote:If one absolutely needs a "shelf" one can be improvised on a single strand cordalette by placing a carabiner through the masterpoint knot and using that carabiner as the shelf for clipping in your second or whatever. a photo from the paper "Anchors in Earnest" by Cyril Shokoples of Rescue Dynamics is attached showing such a set up.the disadvantage with the carabiner in knot shelf is that you generally need to put it in before the anchor is weighted .. a normal shelf can be used anytime and is just there there are ways to build a 3 point cord anchor with a proper shelf with less use of cord than the OPs pic someones actually already posted it up as to using snake/rabbit cord ... its fine IF you understand the strength limitations of single strand knotted cord .... use it only on 7mm+ or tech cord andy-kirkpatrick.com/articl… the other thing to remember is that on 3 point "single strand" anchors ... most of the setups have a double strand on one leg ... this leg will take much/most of the weight due to lower stretch .... so its wise to place that strand on your strongest piece ;) |
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Marty C wrote:If one absolutely needs a "shelf" one can be improvised on a single strand cordalette by placing a carabiner through the masterpoint knot and using that carabiner as the shelf for clipping in your second or whatever. a photo from the paper "Anchors in Earnest" by Cyril Shokoples of Rescue Dynamics is attached showing such a set up.Is that safe? I have given up doing this as I have concerns over how strong the knot is once the main powerpoint carabiner is removed. If the second was then left hanging on the carabiner in the knot and she slipped off the ledge, might the knot pull through? Or maybe this is why he says have an instructor show you where exactly to place the carabiner - which in itself sounds worrying in the dark and rain and not having slept for 24 hours. Or am I just being paranoid? Thanks. |
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Turner wrote:Keep a carabiner (preferably weighted) on the master point at all times when using the shelf/knot. Always a good idea. But..... I can imagine the leader removing her locker from the master point and climbing. Leaving nothing in the master point rather easily. |
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David Coley wrote: Always a good idea. But..... I can imagine the leader removing her locker from the master point and climbing. Leaving nothing in the master point rather easily.I usually clove hitch into the racking biner for the cordelette. This means I leave it behind when I'm starting the next pitch (when leading in blocks) and solves this problem. |