Belaying the leader with a Munter off of the anchors
|
Since the majority of belays in Germany are bolted, people don´t build equalized anchors as often as they do here. Yet there are also trad areas (e.g. Rofan in the Karwendel, Austria) and building trad anchors isn´t completely unheard of. It´s just not a staple of climbing as it is here. |
|
David Appelhans wrote:I've been taking a friend from Austria out climbing lately. He recently told me that the recommended method of belay in the teaching classes and books where he learned in the alps is the munter. Now, I've climbed with swiss climbers in the alps and I'm familiar with the leader using a munter to bring up the followers and think it actually works quite well. What surprised me was that he said the recommended method for belaying the leader on multipitch was to use a munter directly off the anchor and not your harness. I asked him if he was sure if this was not some outdated relic technique from the days of hemp ropes, but he checked with a modern book he has from something like the CMC equivalent and said they recommend belaying the leader with a munter direct from the anchor. Has anyone ever seen this?I prefer having/providing a soft catch on a counterweight, not anchoring a rope to a tank that might break or break my rope if the tank remains a tank. Never have seen or heard of this. I consider it useful if you've run out of carabiners and you have a permanent carabiner on the anchor/belay station. |
|
bearbreeder wrote: ...as to the "suitability' for trad ... i assume beat kammerlander knows what hes doing on 5.14 microgear runnout FAs and the belays he wants on em ... more than most MPers anyways ;)I can't imagine why anyone who had actually seen the test results posted by bearbreeder would deliberately choose to double the loads on their 5.14 microgear runout FA's. But I also wouldn't assume that a high-level climber necessarily knows the latest information about anchor loads. And to the extent that Kammerlander does know something, his belayer is using a Reverso on the anchor, not a Munter, although that is almost certainly because they are (I think) using half-rope technique. The idea that some technique has got to be ok because this or that highly accomplished climber uses it isn't a whole lot better than believing everything you read on the internet. |
|
Well Beat Kammerlander is an 55yr old Austrian Mountain Guide (UIGM certified) and runs a lot of courses and a school so I´d expect he knows what he´s at most of the time. That his belayer is using the Reverso³ in low-friction mode with half-ropes tells me he does know what he´s doing somehow. |
|
Yes, I noticed the Reverso and figured that was their solution to the loading problem with small gear---in addition to the inappropriateness of the Munter for half rope technique. |
|
There is one more factor with Beat´s ascent that gets neglected. Beat in fact had two belayers as he stated in an interview. The gear at the crux is very thin. If Beat fell at the crux, one of the two belayers (the one with the direct bolt-belay?) has to start running backwards to keep him off the deck in case the small gear rips. |
|
Ok, I didn't know any of that. You would think the belayer who is going to do the running would have the rope through a low directional carabiner and not through a belay plate---you can't begin to run away from the cliff effectively if you are trying to drag the rope through a belay plate. So it seems highly unlikely that the plate on the bolt wasn't the "main" belay. |
|
It reminds me of the "unsuitability" of the grigri for trad |
|
Beth weighs what a buck 10 maybe a buck 20 soaking wet with gear. |
|
Greg D wrote:Beth weighs what a buck 10 maybe a buck 20 soaking wet with gear.This guy doesn't ... He even uses it in the alpine (gasp) cascadeclimbers.com/alpine-… There's been intraweb crusades against everything from grigris to dyneema to autoblocks In reality theres little relevance to the real world No one cares what someone on the intrawebz forums thinks when they lead a pitch, and they shouldn't either But it is oh so much fun !!! ;) |
|
To revive an old thread with recent info, I've been climbing in Germany and on the several multipitch climbs so far, i've seen ONLY people belaying both the leader and follower off a munter. I asked several people who confirmed it is the standard taught by the DAV (German Alpine Club) in courses and generally recommended. Most everywhere has good to great bolts so it's not a problem. On single pitch stuff people use the teh same belay devices as in the US (tube, grigri, although more use the Mammut Alpine Smart style than classic tubes). |
|
As far as I know there are a couple of reasons why the DAV speaks in favour of using the HMS/Munter from the anchor. And it's not only the communis opinio for bomber anchors, but also for alpine/trad multi-pitch load-sharing anchors. |
|
While I have not switched from lead belays off the harness, I think this point is missed by many regarding protecting the harness belayer ... |
|