Help, cant decide between Sabertooth Pro and Cyborgs Pro

Cant decide which to get.

I know Cyborgs are more technical for WI/vertical ice and mixed and dry.

Saberooth are more for alpine travel and are better for lower angle vertical ice.

This will be for 85% for WI/mixed and the other 15% for alpine and steep snow/ice.

I cant decide which to get, cyborgs are able to run dual point or mono, but will they work in the alpine and low angle snow / steep ice well ( think Huntington or Crawford notch ) as well as sabers?

will sabers work well on WI/dry?

Thanks for any help

Roman

cyborgs, although if you plan on using them a lot and aren't a 100 lb dancer I'd suggest going with a pair of G14's or really any non stainless offering. Between me and my main climbing partner we've sheared 3 of the bolts that hold the frontpoint on, and my partner had the frame itself break under the ball of his foot (stingers). They're fine for ice cragging, but I don't trust them for shit on any big alpine routes.

Climbed the North Face of Athabasca in Alberta this summer. 6-7 pitches of ice up to 45 degrees, with an M5 mixed pitch at the top. My partner with Cyborgs was not happy. He felt insecure, and remarked the crampons were bad at slicing out a little ledge in the ice for a stance. He had a hard time standing on his heel at the stances or while climbing, so he was on his calves all day. I had to lead the entire thing after the first pitch.

I was climbing in G12's and was exceedingly happy. No trouble standing on my heel while climbing.

If you want the best performance, buy several different pairs crampons. If you can compromise and are OK with extra weight, buy a non-BD modular crampon like the G14 or Petzl Lynx.

You can tailor the front points to your objective, can use them for cragging in monopoint configuration, and the frame won't break like a BD crampon.

The Grivel antibots are excellent.

thanks guys the g14s are also an option.

will they do well got WI/mixed and alpine? steep ice/snow?

I hear g14s front points or actually secondary are too far back and not great for vertical ice

Roman G wrote:thanks guys the g14s are also an option. will they do well got WI/mixed and alpine? steep ice/snow? I hear g14s front points or actually secondary are too far back and not great for vertical ice

It depends*

I've actually been using Darts in couloirs lately if the climbing gets harder later on. Any deficiencies on snow are made up for when the terrain gets technical. My success, however, may have a lot to do with my footwork and the fact that I don't weigh anything (125-130). The Darts are also super light which is nice on the approach.

I also own old carbon Sabers and Cyborgs, and I choose whatever is most appropriate. I've found that I'd rather have too technical a crampon than not.

Roman G wrote:thanks guys the g14s are also an option. will they do well got WI/mixed and alpine? steep ice/snow? I hear g14s front points or actually secondary are too far back and not great for vertical ice

I would choose the brand that does not break given the option.

Lynx and a pair of Vasak.

Steven Kovalenko wrote: I would choose the brand that does not break given the option.

Here is a thread that shows all common brands have breaks.
iceclimbingforums.com/showt…

BD might have higher breakage or just more public reports. The point is, check your gear often, especially at the beginning of the season or before a big climb.

Personally, I use Dart for harder ice climbing and use G12 for easy ice and alpine stuff like Huntington and Crawford Notch. I also have the Lynx, I like them a lot, don't have enough time on them to truely compare. Dart and Dartwin don't have anti-bott, so you have to make your own.

I have Cyborgs, and Sabertooth. But my recommendation is the new Bladerunner from Camp/Cassin. I've been rocking the vertical mono-point for ice and mixed this season. But they also come with horizontal front points that you can bolt on easier than just about any other crampon with replacement front points. Easy to reconfigure for dual, mono, vertical or horizontal front points. Heck, you could even do a mono horizontal front point if you wanted.

If you still want to go BD. I'd say go Sabertooth. They do great in alpine and are OK on vertical ice.

A broken toe bail is pretty minor and more likely to be field fixable than a break in the frame itself. Personally, the quality of modern day monopoint crampons make them applicable to basically any technical climbing. A lightweight horizontal style crampon will work better on snow slogs of course, but besides that application monos are emphatically the best thing out there. On relentless 50 degree ice faces you can draft off your pick holes with monos, and the ice breaks less with a single point. In slushy conditions the secondary points provide plenty of support.

I am intrigued by the cassin bladerunners, but why the hell would anyone spend $350 on a pair of crampons that are heavy as hell and have a bolt hoding the frontpoint on (major disadvantage if you want to use them for alpine routes, imho). The best crampons I've used are G20's, they actually drop the difficulty of ice at least one grade for me. Haven't used them but petzl darts are probably just as good. Personally, I'd get a pair of G14s or Cyborgs configured as monos and use them 90% of the time, saving the G20's for hard routes or times when you really need to be able to rely on your gear. There isn't really one crampon that can do it all, unless you can afford to replace it every season.

Cyborgs for sure. Mono or dual set ups. I could never get good purchase on vertical ice with the Sabertooths. Any who take a look at the new Bladerunners by Cassin nice crampons too.

Hmm...just one pair for everything? Sabretooths would be my choice. Or, maybe the Dartwin.

From:

coldthistle.blogspot.com/20…

This from Will Gadd today:
"Just use the Sabertooths--I've used them to climb m12, WI as hard as it gets, high altitude, logging, great all-purpose rigs as you note. And yep, if crampons get too light then they stop working... Nice blog!"

I am looking to sell my Cyborgs. They have been used for about half dozen outings if you are interested. Thanks,

thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

Roman

I'm up in Crawford/ Franconia / the Washington ravines just about every weekend Dec - May, and you definitely want the cyborgs or another vertical frontpoint crampon. Lots of good info on particular crampons by others, but you won't miss horizontals for NH alpine routes.

Also, pick up a set of microspikes. Crampons are terrible for anything but the technical parts of NH alpine routes. The rest is just snowy / icy rock. Microspikes give better traction without twisting your ankles when one crampon point catches on a snow covered rock.

mtnmandan wrote:I'm up in Crawford/ Franconia / the Washington ravines just about every weekend Dec - May, and you definitely want the cyborgs or another vertical frontpoint crampon. Lots of good info on particular crampons by others, but you won't miss horizontals for NH alpine routes. Also, pick up a set of microspikes. Crampons are terrible for anything but the technical parts of NH alpine routes. The rest is just snowy / icy rock. Microspikes give better traction without twisting your ankles when one crampon point catches on a snow covered rock.

Just out of curiosity, what do you do up in Crawford/Franconia/Ravines? Where would you use microspikes?

I agree with Keenan regarding the G20's - they feel fantastic (I own them and Sabertooths). If I were you however, I'd go with the Sabertooths first (if you planning on a significant amount of alpinism), then get some monopoints later on. Yes, monos have large advantages on many mixed routes (some mixed routes in which you must torque tools and crampon points in thin cracks practically require monos) but at the end of the day good foot work is your real best friend and technical mixed and hard ice can be (and frequently is) climbed with Sabertooths (or similar - G12? - style crampons). On alpine climbs that have some mixed climbing but also lots of neve, snow, and perhaps slushy ice, I much prefer to wear Sabertooths for the added purchase. The ensuing mixed pitches can be dispatched perfectly fine with the horizontal dualpoints.

divnamite wrote: Just out of curiosity, what do you do up in Crawford/Franconia/Ravines? Where would you use microspikes?

Anything with an approach and walk off. If I'm going for a day up Huntington, microspikes go on in the parking lot, switched out for crampons at the base of the climb, and then go on again in the alpine garden for the walk off.

I've done the same thing on Ammo, Madison Gulf, shoestring, avalon, maybe a few more. Of course, they're not needed for drive-ups like Frankenstein, kinsman notch, willard, rumney, etc.

They're also great for hiking in the Whites. No need for crampons.

Sabertooth' or a crampon in that class will be the best all around crampon, if you only want one pair. Try to get the non-stainless, there are enough articles and discussions of bending and cracking to make those a non-option (at least for me). I've still got my "old school" Sabertooths and use them all the time. Great all-arounder.

My current goto for most ice stuff is the grivel g-14. Kick-ass, bullet proof crampon that can be run in a variety of configurations. If it's primarily ice, these are my cramps of choice.