Belaying for someone twice my weight

J. Serpico wrote: I weight 180 dripping wet. my wife 110-120 (usually around 115). she cloves into an anchor with her end of the rope when possible. I mostly (entirely) lead trad, so I don't fall too often, but she has caught a few falls before this new setup. I like this setup because it's more dynamic then webbing.

Yup, for trad, that's how I do it too. But someone did some tests a while back and, as I remember, found there's not really enough additional rope to make a big difference in impact force compared to a cordelette/webbing. (Sigh)

Pavel Burov wrote:Belaying for someone twice my weight Only on easy routes when you do not expect any falls. Working a hard route do not even try. If your heavy climber falls while clipping the 3'rd bolt above a chest level your neck and/or shoulder would be smashed. Because they would fall on you. Just don't. Working a hard route with a light belayer is not an option.

What bloody nonsense. Are you a troll or just dain bread?

On multi-pitch trad: you could lead the sketchy sections and then belay your heavier partner up on an ATC in guide mode from the anchor. Whenever you have established a solid multi-directional belay anchor, he should be able to lead relatively safely from there (especially once the first piece above the belay has been set and clipped).

As fas as sport climbing and single pitch, it will be dangerous if you can't anchor yourself safely/ add weight, etc (as previously discussed). I've seen heavier climbers fall on their belayers as they rocket towards each other and it ain't very pretty.

Relationships are hard enough without trying to meld body parts to each other at the base of a cliff...just my 2 cents.

John Byrnes wrote: Enough what? Just tie-in to what? How? Sorry Eyesonice, if you're gonna have any credibility, you need to be more specific. "Vague" is for people who don't really know what they're talking about. Remember, we're not talking trad (or ice) climbing here. Giving a soft catch to someone of more or less equal weight is a priceless skill. I've been slammed into the wall far too many times to have even a half-second's patience with a belayer who: 1) Is my size and doesn't have that skill 2) Is much smaller than me and is tied-in to a immovable anchor.

I dive all the time and you would need at least 50 pounds on your belt to balance out for your weight difference. Even more. The heaviest belt I ever wore is 20 pounds and that is freaking heavy on dry land. That was in a laminate DUI dry suit in salt water. I don't think you can even find a dive belt that would carry 50 pounds of weight. I dare you to go ask for one at the local dive shop
Hahaha. Tie in with the rope end to a tree or place pro . Better yet have your husband lose the weight. That's beefy for a climber.

Hahaha have him carry your 50 plus pound dive belt on the approach. That would make him loose weight fast!

and I have to say I've seen older climbers, not sure if n00bs or not, tying into trees 20+ft away from the rock while lead belaying with stoppers as the first few pieces. say something or walk away?

Anchored belaying 20 feet from the cliff face has some merit: it keeps the belayer out of the path of falling rocks which ultimately may benefit the leader. If a passive piece is the first placement (or even a cam), you can stop the lifting action of the rope on the cable by installing  a directional piece at the base of the route with the wire pointing upward and clip the rope into it. This will stop the pivoting and outward pull on the leader's 1st piece when the belayer is not at the base of the climb by counteracting the natural tendency for a loaded rope to take a direct line from belayer or anchor to the first piece. Posted by an Older Climber but not a Noob.

nicelegs wrote:I'm about 130 to 140 depending on the year. So heavier than you. I would not even consider lead belaying someone over about 200. Let the big guys play together, let the small ones play together. I get lifted to the second bolt when climbers outweighing me by 30 pounds fall. I'd belay someone that big on TR. I'm just not desperate enough for partners to want to deal with catching a Clydesdale. Unless you have no option, I would suggest not climbing together. Find him a nice common 170 pounder and you find a dainty girl. You make friends and you don't have to deal with making it work.

no offense, but if someone only 30 pounds more than you lifts you to the second anchor, you need to have a better method of belaying. There may be too much slack in the system, you could be standing too far back, I dont know the case. But I can belay people 70 to 80 pounds heavier than me with ease 95% of the time.

Pavel Burov wrote:Belaying for someone twice my weight Only on easy routes when you do not expect any falls. Working a hard route do not even try. If your heavy climber falls while clipping the 3'rd bolt above a chest level your neck and/or shoulder would be smashed. Because they would fall on you. Just don't. Working a hard route with a light belayer is not an option.

I completely disagree. Never while belaying somebody much more than me have i been "slammed into the first draw," i have come close, but never at a speed fast enough to hurt either me or the climber. If there is so much slack in the system that that always happens, one simple option is belay tighter. This doesnt mean shortroping the climber, just not having slack to the ground as they clip the third bolt. And move forwards and backward to help, just not so much that you fly towards the wall when they fall.

Tyler Newcomb wrote: no offense, but if someone only 30 pounds more than you lifts you to the second anchor, you need to have a better method of belaying. There may be too much slack in the system, you could be standing too far back, I dont know the case. But I can belay people 70 to 80 pounds heavier than me with ease 95% of the time.

My max is 50 pounds difference. Which is a little over 1 and 1/3 of my weight. I'm 125.

Tyler Newcomb wrote: no offense, but if someone only 30 pounds more than you lifts you to the second anchor, you need to have a better method of belaying. There may be too much slack in the system, you could be standing too far back, I dont know the case. But I can belay people 70 to 80 pounds heavier than me with ease 95% of the time.

Weight difference is not the only variable. What type of routes are they climbing? Are they very steep, straight lines with very little friction in the line? Are they low angle wandering lines? How big are the falls? IMO 70-80 lbs is still pretty big. I'm 140-150 and when I belay people in excess of 200 I get lifted a good amount, especially if it is a line with little rope friction. I get lifted whether I want to or not, even sitting on the rope duringa fall will not keep me on the ground. THis is fine if we are talking about steep sport lines, but if there are ledges that can be hit, it is not reasonable to expect that I'd be able to shorten a fall.

Tyler Newcomb wrote: I completely disagree. Never while belaying somebody much more than me have i been "slammed into the first draw," i have come close, but never at a speed fast enough to hurt either me or the climber. If there is so much slack in the system that that always happens, one simple option is belay tighter. This doesnt mean shortroping the climber, just not having slack to the ground as they clip the third bolt. And move forwards and backward to help, just not so much that you fly towards the wall when they fall.

If this is accurate for you

Personal: Male
Favorite Climbs: Thin air
Other Interests: Everything outdoors
Personal/Favorite web site: none specified
Likes to climb: Trad, Sport, TR, Gym climbs
Trad: Leads 5.7 Follows 5.9
Sport: Leads 5.8 Follows 5.10a
Boulders: V3

Then you actually have no right to your opinion. You should be spending your time learning from experienced climbers. Come back in 20 years.

csproul wrote: Weight difference is not the only variable. What type of routes are they climbing? Are they very steep, straight lines with very little friction in the line? Are they low angle wandering lines? How big are the falls? IMO 70-80 lbs is still pretty big. I'm 140-150 and when I belay people in excess of 200 I get lifted a good amount, especially if it is a line with little rope friction. I get lifted whether I want to or not, even sitting on the rope duringa fall will not keep me on the ground. THis is fine if we are talking about steep sport lines, but if there are ledges that can be hit, it is not reasonable to expect that I'd be able to shorten a fall.

Yes, it is a big difference, and I do get lifted some, but I have learned to manage it to only be lifted usually a foot or two (on regular lead falls, not 50 foot whippers). A few weekends ago i belayed on a bolted slab climb that was hard for my partner, and he fell plenty of times above the first bolt, which i could catch without leaving the ground. Again, this is for reasonable lead falls, not giant whippers.

nicelegs wrote: If this is accurate for you Personal: Male Favorite Climbs: Thin air Other Interests: Everything outdoors Personal/Favorite web site: none specified Likes to climb: Trad, Sport, TR, Gym climbs Trad: Leads 5.7 Follows 5.9 Sport: Leads 5.8 Follows 5.10a Boulders: V3 Then you actually have no right to your opinion. You should be spending your time learning from experienced climbers. Come back in 20 years.

I'm sorry, but why do I have no right to my opinion?
No, I don't have 30 or 20 or even ten years of climbing experience, but I am not a noob either, and I am learning from more experienced climbers. Last time I checked I had a right to disagree with you, has that changed recently?

Jonathan Cunha wrote:Relationships are hard enough without trying to meld body parts to each other at the base of a cliff...just my 2 cents.

Much better to try this at the top of the cliff. Usually better scenery and more privacy.

Tyler Newcomb wrote: Yes, it is a big difference, and I do get lifted some, but I have learned to manage it to only be lifted usually a foot or two (on regular lead falls, not 50 foot whippers). A few weekends ago i belayed on a bolted slab climb that was hard for my partner, and he fell plenty of times above the first bolt, which i could catch without leaving the ground. Again, this is for reasonable lead falls, not giant whippers. I'm sorry, but why do I have no right to my opinion? No, I don't have 30 or 20 or even ten years of climbing experience, but I am not a noob either, and I am learning from more experienced climbers. Last time I checked I had a right to disagree with you, has that changed recently?

LIke I said, weight is not the only factor. A bolted slab is far different than a clean fall on a steep route. On such a route, with a 70 lb difference, you are not keeping your lift to "a foot or two". Period. I don't care what you do to manage the belay.

Tyler,

I phrased incorrectly. You are a 5.8 climber who has been at it less than 10 years. You are in that most dangerous phase of growth right now, not new enough to keep you off more dangerous stuff and not experienced enough to know how to do it right. Just experienced enough to get into trouble. I should have said that your opinion isn't valid. You have a right to any opinion, just like Tom Cruise, Bill O'reilly, and that dude with the huge hair on Ancient Aliens. Sure they have an opinion on something. Doesn't make it less wrong though.

I also under-exaggerated a bit. 170lbs isn't a giant issue at my weight. 180 and up is. Over 200 is "I'll belay you on TR after I send it because I want to use that little hold". Fact is, a 50-60lb weight difference is very problematic. Beyond that is simply not reasonable on lead.

Rather than defending your position, spend your time figuring out why someone with quadruple your years experience, who wouldn't bother to warm up on your projects, and has seen how it's done on a few different continents would tell you that large weight differences are unsafe.

You'll note that I have not told you why it's unsafe. That's your homework. I figure you'll learn better if I am not the one to tell you.

nicelegs wrote:Fact is, a 50-60lb weight difference is very problematic.

A related thought - the weight difference is relative. A 50lb weight difference for me is less than a third of my own weight. A 50lb weight difference for my 95lb friend is more than half of her weight. That 50lb diference is probably more problematic for her (and her climber).

I'm trying to imagine what it would be like for me to belay someone twice my weight (like the OP is doing). I don't think I've met a climber in the 320+ range but I don't think I'd volunteer a belay.

Jonathan Cunha wrote: As fas as sport climbing and single pitch, it will be dangerous if you can't anchor yourself safely/ add weight, etc (as previously discussed). I've seen heavier climbers fall on their belayers as they rocket towards each other and it ain't very pretty. Relationships are hard enough without trying to meld body parts to each other at the base of a cliff...just my 2 cents.

True, but often you have more choices. For example, if there's a nearby sport route, you can clip the belayer's rope through the first bolt, thus keeping the belayer and climber from hitting each other. It also adds friction, so the weight difference is further mitigated.

Use a stick-clip to clip #2 on the climbing route, and the belayer's rope to #1 on the route next door, usually with a long sling(s). Other configurations are feasible, depending on the specific situation. Of course you must think it through; you might actually create another hazard for your belayer.

If there isn't a nearby route, you can still often re-direct the belayer's rope with some gear, a tree, etc. I've seen a lot of good advice in this thread there's room for creativity.

eyesonice2014 wrote: I dive all the time and you would need at least 50 pounds on your belt to balance out for your weight difference. Even more.

Bad assumption. You don't need to balance the weight difference.

eyesonice2014 wrote:The heaviest belt I ever wore is 20 pounds and that is freaking heavy on dry land. That was in a laminate DUI dry suit in salt water. I don't think you can even find a dive belt that would carry 50 pounds of weight.

My weight belt weighs 20lbs. I put it on several light friends when I was teaching them to belay. Adding 20lbs makes a huge difference, as you say yourself, "freaking heavy on dry land."

eyesonice2014 wrote:I dare you to go ask for one at the local dive shop Hahaha. Tie in with the rope end to a tree or place pro . Better yet have your husband lose the weight. That's beefy for a climber. Hahaha have him carry your 50 plus pound dive belt on the approach. That would make him loose weight fast!

Let's see: Your basic assumption is wrong. You've never tried it. You assume the 220lbs guy is fat, which may not be true. In a gym and some sport climbing venues, bringing a weight belt is no big deal. And your advice is pretty much guaranteed to slam the climber into the wall.

Hahaha. You should stick to vague.

Spoken like a person who never wore a dive belt. Are you sure it was not one of those goofy weight vests they sell in Dick's you were wearing?

eyesonice2014 wrote:Spoken like a person who never wore a dive belt. Are you sure it was not one of those goofy weight vests they sell in Dick's you were wearing?

220 pound with a 110 pound belayer. I say start going on double climbing dates with similar sized couples.

Em Cos wrote: Much better to try this at the top of the cliff. Usually better scenery and more privacy.

Nice one.