Equalizing 2 pieces on lead
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Something I've been thinking about recently, and maybe i'm over-thinking it. I'm a relatively new trad leader. I realize that it's probably very context dependent, but what are some of the ways you accomplish getting 2 pieces more or less equalized when you only have one arm available to use at a stance? Especially when the placements are in separate features? Let's say you have 2 lengths of slings - 60cm tripled as alpine draws and a couple 120cm around your shoulder with a carabiner. |
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Sliding x. |
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Sliding X |
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Sling and clip both pieces independantly. |
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this is like a stupid question on one of my finals except i'm in food science and that has nothing t do with climbing. i'll choose "Sling and clip both pieces independantly." |
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Its not a stupid question. I remember asking the same thing and i actually did it on some of my first leads. But looking back I don't know why.. But slinging both pieces and clipping them separately is probably your best bet. |
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On the whole you don't bother. |
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If they r pretty close you can clip one cam to the others thumb loop |
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martinharris wrote:If they r pretty close you can clip one cam to the others thumb loopYup. I seem to do this a lot at the gunks where the crux is usually pretty intimidating, protection is in horizontals, and having 2 pieces just feels better. stick em both in, clip to the better one like you normally would, then see what you can clip the racking biner on the backup to on your clipped in piece. If it's too far, put on a draw, and see what you can clip it to. If nothing works right, just clip both like normal. |
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All of the above depending on the situation/gear/rock. |
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You can also use one sling clipped to one piece and clove to the other. I believe in redundancy and a solid placement above equalization though. |
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A good question would be: why do you want the pieces equalized? |
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The sliding X is worth very little. And there is a nasty possibility, that the twist in one strand that is required could work its way over the gate and open it, so you really ought to be using two biners gates reversed or a locker. That's more one-handed fiddling and, all in all, not worth it considering the variations in sliding-X performance. |
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wivanoff wrote:A good question would be: why do you want the pieces equalized? If they are two good pieces, there's no real need. So, sling and clip independently. Especially nice since I usually lead on double ropes. But, what if they are two micro nuts? Either one alone would not hold the fall but together they might. For this situation, in the past, I've used a sliding X - knowing that if one leg blows, they both will go. But, if they equalize, they might hold together. Now I know that the sliding X does not equalize as well as we thought so I may have been deluding myself. Is there a better solution? Or, in that situation, should I just keep using a sliding X and hope for the best? I have a few ideas, but I'd like to hear other thoughts.This ^^^. You could simply tie them off and equalize them with one sling with load limiting knots. That way if one blows the extension wont pop out the other garbage/small piece. But who has the time to do that? Use the sliding X and dont fall. |
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rgold wrote:The sliding X is worth very little. And there is a nasty possibility, that the twist in one strand that is required could work its way over the gate and open it, so you really ought to be using two biners gates reversed or a locker. That's more one-handed fiddling and, all in all, not worth it considering the variations in sliding-X performance. There is also the usual question addressed in all the threads on this, namely whether equalization is what you want. If the pieces vary greatly in their placement strength, equalization, in the off-chance you obtained it, would be counter-productive. If there is a way to clip the pieces together that doesn't involve a big obtuse angle between pieces at the same level, fine. If they can be easily chained, fine. Otherwise, clip 'em separately with slings that you adjust as best you can to make them hang nearly the same length. As is true in many situations, things go better with half ropes, especially if the two pieces are at the same horizontal level but too far separated for any kind of common sling connection.So rgold, you don't buy the "two marginal pieces can make one adequate piece if they are equalized" argument? Do you know if that has ever been formally tested? |
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I buy it in theory, but I don't think there is any practical consequence, because (1) there is no reliable equalizing mechanism and (2) the very nature of marginal pieces means we really don't have a good handle on how good they are, and if they differ greatly in holding power, then equalization could be a worse alternative. |
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Best way to do it is get a piece in and go direct.Then you will be able to use both hands freely. Make a SRENE anchor and you're good to go. |
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> |
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Eric Chabot wrote: In all seriousness, I agree with above posters saying don't equalize unless the pieces really suck, are in suspect rock, etc.unless they are micro nuts and you want them back if you fall |
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Tom Lausch wrote: This ^^^. You could simply tie them off and equalize them with one sling with load limiting knots. That way if one blows the extension wont pop out the other garbage/small piece. But who has the time to do that? Use the sliding X and dont fall.We know that the Sliding X doesn't do what we thought... with clutch effect and all. One thing I thought of was connecting the two micronuts with a long sling that had limiter knots. I thought I'd clip just one strand between the limiter knots instead of making the X. That might allow for better equalization like the quad anchor does. (Hey, they're micronuts on lead. I'm not concerned about SRENE.) But, who could do that at a stance? I suppose you could pretie it before the stance. But, as rgold wrote "if they differ greatly in holding power, then equalization could be a worse alternative." Maybe it's academic. At my age I'm no longer leading things where I need to nest micronuts. And, fortunately, I never had to actually test my micronut placements in the past with a fall. |
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Yeah there is rarely if ever a good reason to equalize two pieces rather than clip them separately, but if you do, sliding X is the way to go. Keep in mind that if a carabiner unclips or the sling somehow gets cut over an edge, you've now had both pieces fail rather than just one. |