Belaying for someone twice my weight

If you anchor in for sport climbs and want a bit of a "dynamic catch"

- use a tube device rather than a grigri

- use a stretchy low impact rope

- have the belayer tie in with the rope and then clove it to the anchor with sone slack in the system

- the belayer should belay off the rope loop so that they are out of the system (dont use a yosemite finish)

On multi you may have no choice regardless but to have the belayer anchored down, if they go flying up the anchor (without an upward pull piece) will act as a pivot point and theyll get smacked into the wall hard

;)

Brett Burnes wrote:As far as the catch not being "soft", I would rather take some discomfort or even an injury (though neither has ever been an issue) rather than risk pulling her into the wall or up into a bolt/draw.

Eeeeent! Sorry. Thanks for playing.

Wearing a weight vest that amounts to over 1/3 of your body weight sounds like it would be no fun, probably pretty hard on your body, and not even effective - given that the result would be a 220 lb. climber and 150 lb. belayer - you'd still go for a ride.

Learn to belay safely while anchored, and while taking a ride unanchored. You're going to want to be able to do either depending on the situation. On all but the first pitch you're going to be anchored anyway, so learn other ways to give the leader a soft catch (if the situation calls for it, it doesn't always!) without relying on being physically pulled into the air. Your 220 lb. partner has to do the same thing when you lead, he won't be pulled into the air when you fall and has to learn to give a soft catch if that's what you need at the moment.

At 110 lbs, the reality is being outweighed by your climbing partner is going to be the norm for you. Learn to deal with it in a safe way for the variety of situations you'll encounter. When I'm belaying from the ground, my partners and I assess the situation and decide together if I am better off being anchored or not. I can't think of a time that we weren't in agreement - such as anchoring is safer for the leader but being unanchored is safer for me - but if that ever happened, I would lead the pitch or we would choose a different route.

Other fun issues for the light climbers - I've had numerous occasions on rappels that were described as "rope-stretchers" in the guidebook where my partner stretched the rope enough to reach the next anchor but I did not. We quickly learned to send the heavier partner first so he could warn me if he just barely made it down and could help me downclimb the few feet if needed. Also, you'll have partners that insist you be the guinea pig for sketchy rap anchors, being lighter. As in - add a back-up piece, send heaviest climber, lightest climber cleans the back-up piece and raps with just the fixed anchor. If you're not happy with the fixed anchor, leave that back-up piece in - being the lightest doesn't mean you need to take extra risks every time. And if you all enjoyed the extra safety of the back-up piece, I say you can all share the cost of leaving it behind.

Hope that was somewhat helpful, good luck and have fun!

Em Cos wrote:Wearing a weight vest that amounts to over 1/3 of your body weight sounds like it would be no fun, probably pretty hard on your body, and not even effective - given that the result would be a 220 lb. climber and 150 lb. belayer - you'd still go for a ride. Learn to belay safely while anchored, and while taking a ride unanchored. You're going to want to be able to do either depending on the situation. On all but the first pitch you're going to be anchored anyway, so learn other ways to give the leader a soft catch (if the situation calls for it, it doesn't always!) without relying on being physically pulled into the air. Your 220 lb. partner has to do the same thing when you lead, he won't be pulled into the air when you fall and has to learn to give a soft catch if that's what you need at the moment. At 110 lbs, the reality is being outweighed by your climbing partner is going to be the norm for you. Learn to deal with it in a safe way for the variety of situations you'll encounter. When I'm belaying from the ground, my partners and I assess the situation and decide together if I am better off being anchored or not. I can't think of a time that we weren't in agreement - such as anchoring is safer for the leader but being unanchored is safer for me - but if that ever happened, I would lead the pitch or we would choose a different route. Other fun issues for the light climbers - I've had numerous occasions on rappels that were described as "rope-stretchers" in the guidebook where my partner stretched the rope enough to reach the next anchor but I did not. We quickly learned to send the heavier partner first so he could warn me if he just barely made it down and could help me downclimb the few feet if needed. Also, you'll have partners that insist you be the guinea pig for sketchy rap anchors, being lighter. As in - add a back-up piece, send heaviest climber, lightest climber cleans the back-up piece and raps with just the fixed anchor. If you're not happy with the fixed anchor, leave that back-up piece in - being the lightest doesn't mean you need to take extra risks every time. And if you all enjoyed the extra safety of the back-up piece, I say you can all share the cost of leaving it behind. Hope that was somewhat helpful, good luck and have fun!

most cliffs have a rock or two(a million?) near the base that you could hitch and clip into. even some gyms have (hopefully soft)weights for belayers to clip into, you dont have to wear it. I agree with everything else you said.

I'm about 130 to 140 depending on the year. So heavier than you. I would not even consider lead belaying someone over about 200. Let the big guys play together, let the small ones play together.

I get lifted to the second bolt when climbers outweighing me by 30 pounds fall. I'd belay someone that big on TR. I'm just not desperate enough for partners to want to deal with catching a Clydesdale.

Unless you have no option, I would suggest not climbing together. Find him a nice common 170 pounder and you find a dainty girl. You make friends and you don't have to deal with making it work.

Miike wrote: most cliffs have a rock or two(a million?) near the base that you could hitch and clip into. even some gyms have (hopefully soft)weights for belayers to clip into, you dont have to wear it. I agree with everything else you said.

I mentioned wearing a weight vest because that was the OP's original question, asking if wearing a 40 lb. weight vest might be a good idea.

I think I made it clear that I do not think it is a good idea, that I think you should either anchor yourself or not, but learn how to belay safely in either situation and assess the situation to determine whether anchored or unanchored is best.

Em Cos wrote: I mentioned wearing a weight vest because that was the OP's original question, asking if wearing a 40 lb. weight vest might be a good idea. I think I made it clear that I do not think it is a good idea, that I think you should either anchor yourself or not, but learn how to belay safely in either situation and assess the situation to determine whether anchored or unanchored is best.

I meant a 20# or 30# or 40# rock or a heavy backpack but on the ground, you dont have to wear it, just clip into it. I think tying into anything solid like a tree or boulder is kinda dumb in 90% of situations at the crag.

and I have to say I've seen older climbers, not sure if n00bs or not, tying into trees 20+ft away from the rock while lead belaying with stoppers as the first few pieces. say something or walk away?

Yes, you meant on the ground. I was discussing wearing a weight vest in response to this original post:

Short Beta wrote:My climbing partner weighs 220 lbs and I weigh 110 lbs. He has expressed anxiety about falling on lead and I don't really blame him. I use a grigri and more importantly, he has total confidence in my ability to belay smartly and safely (and I do too) but you can't change physics. We have taken controlled practice falls in the climbing gym and it went how I expected, he took a small fall and I went flying. (First bolt was unclipped and I had very little to no slack out) I feel like this is a pretty common problem with small belayers, and I would like to look into a weight vest to even the difference out. Has anyone here tried this before? Will wearing a 40 pound vest make belaying uncomfortable? Or are there better alternatives? Yes he could find a heavier belayer but I want to try and find a solution.

Just trying to answer the question that was asked.

Thanks for the advice, unfortunately doesn't seem to be a very easy solution..

Just to clarify my main concern here is not with myself (flying up to the first/second clip or getting thrown around) my concern is with the possibility of my climber decking because my weight can't stop him in time.
I'm going to try a 20-30 lb weight vest and take some small practice falls in the gym with him just to see what the difference is..

He is my SO and I would like it to be possible for us to climb together as much as we can but seems like we will just have to use good judgement as to which climbs I should belay for him on.

Dammit physics, making things complicated...

Short Beta wrote:Thanks for the advice, unfortunately doesn't seem to be a very easy solution.. Just to clarify my main concern here is not with myself (flying up to the first/second clip or getting thrown around) my concern is with the possibility of my climber decking because my weight can't stop him in time. I'm going to try a 20-30 lb weight vest and take some small practice falls in the gym with him just to see what the difference is.. He is my SO and I would like it to be possible for us to climb together as much as we can but seems like we will just have to use good judgement as to which climbs I should belay for him on. Dammit physics, making things complicated...

Just be aware of how a weight vest will make you top heavy. I'd imagine you could be surprised by the change in balance or center of gravity when quickly yanked by the rope.

MojoMonkey wrote: Just be aware of how a weight vest will make you top heavy. I'd imagine you could be surprised by the change in balance or center of gravity when quickly yanked by the rope.

which is why tying into a weight is better!

I weight about 105lbs and this has been a concern of mine as well. I consistently belay people way above my weight.

You definitely have to learn to access the situation before getting on.

If we are on a hard sport route where you are belaying from ground, I load my pack up with all my stuff and will throw heavy rocks (found near the climb so I don't have to carry weights around) into the pack, throw the pack on and belay. This allows me to have the flexibility to move around while belaying safely.

On multi-pitch trad routes, you can throw a piece in below your feet so you don't go flying into the wall.

MojoMonkey wrote: Just be aware of how a weight vest will make you top heavy. I'd imagine you could be surprised by the change in balance or center of gravity when quickly yanked by the rope.

Yes. This is why a diver's weight belt is better for belaying and training. The extra weight is aligned around your natural center of gravity, so you balance is mostly unaffected.

Short Beta wrote:Thanks for the advice, unfortunately doesn't seem to be a very easy solution.. Just to clarify my main concern here is not with myself (flying up to the first/second clip or getting thrown around) my concern is with the possibility of my climber decking because my weight can't stop him in time. I'm going to try a 20-30 lb weight vest and take some small practice falls in the gym with him just to see what the difference is.. He is my SO and I would like it to be possible for us to climb together as much as we can but seems like we will just have to use good judgement as to which climbs I should belay for him on. Dammit physics, making things complicated...

My girlfriend and I are in a similar situation to you. Here's what we've come up with. We tie her down with a little bit of slack. The goal is that she is still able to move around a little (helps to give a better belay, and is more comfortable than being tied off tight to something), and I can lift her up a bit to keep the catch soft, but she can't get yanked all the way to the wall. There's always subtleties to it, but you'll get used to it. For example, it's better if the tie-off is a bit to one side so it doesn't spin her too much when it comes tight.

Some of our gyms have ground anchors in place. We typically tie into those with the other end of the rope, and then she cloves it to a biner on her belay loop. Even though it's only a short piece of dynamic line, the energy absorbed when the knots cinch also keep it from being a hard hit. When we first started climbing together, she was clipping in tight to the anchor with a daisy chain, and I could feel the difference.

Outdoors we have occasionally run into spots where there wasn't a ground anchor. Keep in mind that you don't need much. You're not hanging off it, just trying to make up the difference it your weights. When we really can't find an anchor, I have to evaluate the route. If it has a low crux, and she's not anchored, I may not try the route. There was a route recently I really wanted to check out, but it had a very insecure crux just above the second bolt. Luckily it was closely bolted, so I was able to yard on the 2nd bolt to get a draw on the next one and get clipped to it. Then I could lower back down and try the move knowing I wasn't going to deck. I'll have to bring a heavier belayer for the redpoint, but at least I was able to check it out and didn't risk decking.

As for multi-pitch, look into the munter hitch off the anchor technique. I tried it recently and think it is a good approach when there is hard climbing right off the belay. This applies even when you weigh the same as your partner.

Short Beta wrote:My climbing partner weighs 220 lbs and I weigh 110 lbs. He has expressed anxiety about falling on lead and I don't really blame him. I use a grigri and more importantly, he has total confidence in my ability to belay smartly and safely (and I do too) but you can't change physics. We have taken controlled practice falls in the climbing gym and it went how I expected, he took a small fall and I went flying. (First bolt was unclipped and I had very little to no slack out) I feel like this is a pretty common problem with small belayers, and I would like to look into a weight vest to even the difference out. Has anyone here tried this before? Will wearing a 40 pound vest make belaying uncomfortable? Or are there better alternatives? Yes he could find a heavier belayer but I want to try and find a solution.

Climbing friend!

As heavier climber I can tell to you the only solution for light belayer would be the eating of several high-quality cheesesteaks plus many raw fisheads out of bucket each day. Along with this, you must do power lifting routine and no cardio, so you would be gain maybe 60-80 pounds. You may need steroids.

Also, I hope to you that you be having many excellent and enjoyable flash this weekend! Let us not forget the glory of holy flash! Making difficult flash would be much far more important than whether you can belay heavyman on the climbing rocks.

Belaying for someone twice my weight

Only on easy routes when you do not expect any falls.

Working a hard route do not even try. If your heavy climber falls while clipping the 3'rd bolt above a chest level your neck and/or shoulder would be smashed. Because they would fall on you. Just don't. Working a hard route with a light belayer is not an option.

John Byrnes wrote: Yes. This is why a diver's weight belt is better for belaying and training. The extra weight is aligned around your natural center of gravity, so you balance is mostly unaffected.

No way that's enough. Just tie in.

Xam wrote:I don't sport climb much but I am curious if there is a problem with a light belayer tieing in, cloving to a ground anchor, and leaving enough slack to give a soft catch but not enough to get mangled on the first draw? You already have the gear and don't need to bring out something for ballast weight.

I weight 180 dripping wet. my wife 110-120 (usually around 115). she cloves into an anchor with her end of the rope when possible. I mostly (entirely) lead trad, so I don't fall too often, but she has caught a few falls before this new setup.

I like this setup because it's more dynamic then webbing.

eyesonice2014 wrote: No way that's enough. Just tie in.

Enough what? Just tie-in to what? How?

Sorry Eyesonice, if you're gonna have any credibility, you need to be more specific. "Vague" is for people who don't really know what they're talking about. Remember, we're not talking trad (or ice) climbing here.

Giving a soft catch to someone of more or less equal weight is a priceless skill. I've been slammed into the wall far too many times to have even a half-second's patience with a belayer who:

1) Is my size and doesn't have that skill
2) Is much smaller than me and is tied-in to a immovable anchor.