Calling all van dwellers

Charlie Jonas wrote: The solar set up to run an electric heater is not real plausible on top of a van. Consider the following (it's been a while so if there are any electricians out there, go easy on all of my mistakes): A 1000 watt heater will require 83 amps to run an hour. A AMG 200 amp batter would run the heater for only 1.2 hours before getting below the 50% charge threshold (you don't want to run AMG batteries below 50% or they lose cycles). Except the heater is likely AC and your solar system is DC, thus you need a very nice sin wave power inverter (~1000$) and your only going to get about 85% efficiency on conversion. So that puts us at around 1 hour/battery. To heat the van for 6 hours we will need 6 batteries (200*6 = $1200). Now to recharge these batteries in a day you will need some serious solar power. In ideal conditions a 100 watt solar panel will put out about 8.3 amps an hour. That means it will take a single solar panel +60 lighted hours or so to recoup the 500 amps you've burned from running your space heater for 6 hours. If you want it to be recharged for the next night, you will need at least 1000 watts (@ at least $1/watt) of solar power on top of your van. Good luck with that install. Don't forget combiners and charge controller (I don't even know what that will run you). All that considered, I think propane is the way to go. If your serious about it, get a Vented Cat heater ( ventedcatheater.com). They are safe and will work much better than a MR buddy. You'll still need to figure out the propane concern though. I tried a MR buddy and it never worked consistently for me. Now mine won't even fire up anymore (maybe because I live well above the operating elevation). Not to mention, the by product of Catalytic heaters is h20, which means that while you get warm, you'll also get wet. Hope that helps

Space heaters dont run at capacity 24/7 unless you are using them in Antarctica or have the setting completely maxed. They will cycle on and off to maintain the set temp, thus it would not draw 1000W constantly, only when on. Also, I doubt you need a pure sine wave inverter for a heater. The much cheaper modified sine wave inverter would likely work just fine. But yes, it is not plausible to use an electrical heater. It's just not efficient.

mustardtiger wrote:If you guys are that worried about a leaking propane tank then I assume you would absolutely not live in a house with gas as a source of energry. They do leak and they do explode but it's not enough of an issue to keep millions of families from using it as an energry source.

The reason you keep the larger 20lb tanks outside the vehicle is that they're reasonably heavy and in an accident you don't want it breaking free of its mount and either rupturing or snapping off the valve assembly as it gets violently thrown around inside the van, spewing propane.

jcrigler wrote:Thanks everyone for yor comments so far. 20 kn- I'm wondering the same thing. It seems like it is widely accepted to use those green 1lb propane tanks inside (I've seen several van goers do this) but wildly unsafe to use a bigger propane tank inside.

The people I've talked to make me think it's not about weight (1lb vs. 20lb) so much as awake vs. asleep. The 1lb is mostly used for cooking, which you do while awake! I gather burning propane while you're asleep is the most major concern.

Actually, there could be some tank concerns, come to think of it. 1lb tanks are not normally reused, while 20lb tanks are. You see plenty of 20lb tanks that have been through hell and back. Perhaps the possibility of leaks and such on 20lb tanks is higher because of this?

Charlie Jonas wrote: Except the heater is likely AC and your solar system is DC, thus you need a very nice sin wave power inverter (~1000$) and your only going to get about 85% efficiency on conversion.

I'll be the resident nerd... whatever inefficiency in the DC/AC conversion will turn into heat, with the same efficiency as a resistive element in a heater. It's a wash.

doak wrote: I'll be the resident nerd... whatever inefficiency in the DC/AC conversion will turn into heat, with the same efficiency as a resistive element in a heater. It's a wash.

Heck, I'd hope you'd be able to just find a good DC heater instead. Less parts, less $, less complexity.

Haven't read through the thread but...where are you living that you need a heater?

I have lived in my van several winters, just drove cross country in that hideous weather and never felt so much as chilly toes. Get a good down comforter and flannel sheets. Of course, one needs a decent bed... you aren't sleeping on a camping pad over plywood, hopefully. Get a damned decent mattress, flannel sheets and a down comforter and sleep in style.

If you're sitting in the van during the day long enough to be uncomfortable, you're doing it wrong.

And as for cylinders blowing up, it is rare. Once is enough, no kidding but really. It is true you want to have the thing unable to roll around during travel, of course. I keep my 20lber in the back, stowed between a middle platform support 2X4 and a stack of bins. The top also wedges into a 2X4 which supports the platform. It's not going anywhere.

One thing - Afetr uses, turn the gas off and run what's left in the tank through. Unhook the hose when stowed for travel. I don't know about Mr Heaters, but I had a cookstove which I made the mistake of being lazy and leaving connected. The regulator in the thing had a plastic o-ring, and the liquid propane got to it(so a propane dealer explained) and caused a microfracture. Yes, a microfracture, although he didn't call it that. It made the hose leak whenever I used the stove and wasted gas like mad. Like a 3-4 month supply gone in 4-5 weeks. Plus of course the cost of re[lacing the hose, which was a story in itself.

Happiegrrrl wrote:Haven't read through the thread but...where are you living that you need a heater? I have lived in my van several winters, just drove cross country in that hideous weather and never felt so much as chilly toes. Get a good down comforter and flannel sheets. Of course, one needs a decent bed... you aren't sleeping on a camping pad over plywood, hopefully. Get a damned decent mattress, flannel sheets and a down comforter and sleep in style. If you're sitting in the van during the day long enough to be uncomfortable, you're doing it wrong. And as for cylinders blowing up, it is rare. Once is enough, no kidding but really. It is true you want to have the thing unable to roll around during travel, of course. I keep my 20lber in the back, stowed between a middle platform support 2X4 and a stack of bins. The top also wedges into a 2X4 which supports the platform. It's not going anywhere. One thing - Afetr uses, turn the gas off and run what's left in the tank through. Unhook the hose when stowed for travel. I don't know about Mr Heaters, but I had a cookstove which I made the mistake of being lazy and leaving connected. The regulator in the thing had a plastic o-ring, and the liquid propane got to it(so a propane dealer explained) and caused a microfracture. Yes, a microfracture, although he didn't call it that. It made the hose leak whenever I used the stove and wasted gas like mad. Like a 3-4 month supply gone in 4-5 weeks. Plus of course the cost of re[lacing the hose, which was a story in itself.

keep going....

I put a direct vent propane heater in. It has worked great for more than 10 years and a lot use. For several years I slept every week night in the thing during some very cold winters. Its designed for a bigger space, but it has a thermostat and no fan so it does not draw any electricity. All the exhaust goes outside. I think it is an ecotherm. They became empire. I bought another larger one under the empire name once I saved enough to buy a house with cash (because I did not pay rent for a long time). The ecotherm never had any problems despite being shaken up on lots of bumpy dirt roads. The empire has had constant problems and leaks and I have had to replace many of its parts despite it sitting stationary in a house.
Connection leaks can be an issue, but as described above you can isolate the propane cylinder and/or be very careful using thread seal tape and tightening everything up just right. A handheld gas sensor is a good investment. Its useful for identifying exactly where line leaks are occurring and the one I have has been sensitive enough to pinpoint them inside the newer unit.
I would advise against any open flames inside at all. I tried a set up with a hood and powerful exhaust fan for cooking inside and found that my digital carbon monoxide monitor (another important tool) still went much higher than expected, which is not good for your health.
My solar system with a couple of deep cycle batteries is great for running lights, palying music and working on my lap top, but you can'tever expect a system like that to run a heater.
After many iterations I came up with a workable shower system that involves hand pumps rather than finicky 12 volt pumps and that heats the water outside but which can be completely controled from the inside. The only downside is that you have to sit or kneel to shower.

eyesonice2014 wrote:keep going....

Vansion!1!!1!

Yes it's nice.