Got benighted on Madame G's at the Gunks - left about 8 pieces behind!

George Maynard wrote:I would have left the rope before 8 pieces of gear.

We got a winner! Assuming it was all (mostly) cams, 8 pieces of gear cost more than a used rope.

You could've also rapped down, cleaned most of the gear and bail off 2-3 pieces, preferably stoppers.

I do hope you get your gear back..... However.... the pitch I assume you are referring to on Madame G's is not 100 feet long; it seems as though you may have linked P2 and P3 together. Since it seems you're from outside the area, you may not have known about the P2 belay, although there's still a good deal of rope drag even if you use that belay station.

This route is one of many in the Gunks where, if your second isn't experienced (and if you don't protect him or her with enough gear on the left side of the roof), you may need a 3:1 or 5:1 to haul him or her up if they can't pull that roof. I've personally seen this happen watching other parties up there. Also linking those pitches together leaves you unable to see and possibly hear your second, which is always risky, especially when it can be avoided. Just something to think about if you're bringing someone up again and you're not sure of their abilities.

Anyway, like I said, I hope you get your gear back.

doligo wrote:You could've also rapped down, cleaned most of the gear and bail off 2-3 pieces, preferably stoppers.

You're familiar with the route, right? Don't you think the traverses and overhanging rock (particularly if he left the bottom end attached to the second) would have made cleaning on rappel pretty tricky? In the dark, no less? By the time he got to his first piece he'd be 20 or 30 feet left of his rappel anchor...sounds pretty awkward with the rope fixed below him...

The first lesson I think would be to not head up a muli-pitch route with an inexperienced second at 4 pm at this time of year, especially without headlamps. Hope you get your gear back, but I think you should be prepared to chalk it up to a learning experience. Not trying to dump on you, but, for the future, you are lucky your unaware leadership did not cause worse problems. Things don't always go as planned. You need to expect that and do what you can to reasonably prepare, especially if you and your partner are inexperienced and heading up a potentially scary (at least for one of you) route. Allowing for extra time and headlamps are some of the basics.

Yup, was wondering how smart that was to commit to a multi-pitch at 4pm (sunsets are around 5?), newbie second, no headlamps...
I guess there's some disposable income involved cause I would have grabbed my headlamp at the base and re-lead the route, fix the rope and ascend-clean or set a top-rope with 2 ropes...
Learning experience, also hope you can get some gear back in exchange of a few beers.

Man people are such assholes! Way to show restraint dude! Good luck with your gear.

I did have a headlamp, but I gave it to my second. And unfortunately, it didn't seem bright enough to be of much help. I checked it the next day and it turned out the batteries were low and it was in power saving mode. Ugh!

I've led Madame G's many times and have always linked pitches 2 and 3. That was actually the main reason we decided to do it. I knew I could cruise it. But I was banking a little more on my second being able to follow it. Anyway, yeah, I know I made some stupid decisions, which is why I just decided to leave the gear behind. I didn't want to make another mistake that could cost me more than just gear.

Thanks to those of you who actually had something constructive to say and not just make some obvious remarks about mistakes I made!

I like the following discussion on reddit. After this post, I feel like I can relate to BSTRuM's response there!
reddit.com/r/climbing/comme…

Looking back, many accidents occur as a result of not one but a series of unfortunate decisions. Fortunately, you weren't sucked into that syndrome and decided to cut your losses after your first mistake.

There's been some really poor advice about hauling given that would, at the very best, probably have resulted in your spending the whole night out there. It is extremely unlikely that you could have budged the second from 100 feet away with the rope running though protection and over and around various edges, no matter what so-called "mechanical advantage" system you improvised, but if you were unlucky enough to have pulled her up a little so that she ended up hanging higher up with you unable to move her, the real epic would have begun. Good for you for not trying to head down that road.

Sunset nowadays is around 4:30 PM. You get maybe another half hour of civil twilight, after which it is too dark to see. Temperatures can drop rapidly once the sun has set, making clothing worn during the day insufficient. Things could have gotten very uncomfortable indeed.

Granted that you effed up by beginning late with a second not fully as competent as you, I think you did the right thing after that. Hope you get your stuff back.

OK Bob, but you shouldn't take some constructive criticism as people necessarily being a-holes. From your initial description and request for help it wasn't clear that you fully understood what you were doing wrong. It is natural for people who have probably already learned by doing similar things or seen it to offer feedback.

Building belays right after cruxes is something I'll often do when doing multipitch with a beginner. Then it's a simple matter of dropping a bight of the brake hand end and letting them haul themselves up.

What about planning your climbs? Not bringing a beginner on a traverse to follow Is making too much sense? Do you always climb blindly and set your noob second for a failure?

eyesonice2014 wrote:What about planning your climbs? Not bringing a beginner on a traverse to follow Is making too much sense? Do you always climb blindly and set your noob second for a failure?

These inflammatory, ignorant, already-mentioned comments add nothing to this conversation. As usual, Elena.

fliesnlice2014 wrote:What about planning your climbs? Not bringing a beginner on a traverse to follow Is making too much sense? Do you always climb blindly and set your noob second for a failure?

What about

..go away

Tom-onator wrote: What about ..go away

You go away yourself

This minor epic will end up being a source of good laughs I'm sure, "Remember when xxx flailed up that climb..."

Reminds me to check the batteries in my headlamp, I generally end up walking to the car in the dark when ice climbing...

We're the aholes for getting you into this situation. Oh wait...

BTW, welcome to mountain project. This thread has gone smoothly compared to most.

rgold wrote:Looking back, many accidents occur as a result of not one but a series of unfortunate decisions. Fortunately, you weren't sucked into that syndrome and decided to cut your losses after your first mistake. There's been some really poor advice about hauling given that would, at the very best, probably have resulted in your spending the whole night out there. It is extremely unlikely that you could have budged the second from 100 feet away with the rope running though protection and over and around various edges, no matter what so-called "mechanical advantage" system you improvised, but if you were unlucky enough to have pulled her up a little so that she ended up hanging higher up with you unable to move her, the real epic would have begun. Good for you for not trying to head down that road. Sunset nowadays is around 4:30 PM. You get maybe another half hour of civil twilight, after which it is too dark to see. Temperatures can drop rapidly once the sun has set, making clothing worn during the day insufficient. Things could have gotten very uncomfortable indeed. Granted that you effed up by beginning late with a second not fully as competent as you, I think you did the right thing after that. Hope you get your stuff back.

Bob, hopefully you actually read Rich's post. There's a lot of wisdom here. Take the good with the bad.

Kevin Heckeler wrote: Bob, hopefully you actually read Rich's post. There's a lot of wisdom here. Take the good with the bad.

Yes, I liked this post. I didn't say that no one had anything good to say. But I can only laugh/roll my eyes at some of the more obvious and deprecating remarks. Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm taking this as a learning experience.

Bob Johnson wrote: But I can only laugh/roll my eyes at some of the more obvious and deprecating remarks. Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm taking this as a learning experience.

You're not the only one. Hotels.com should be taking notes for it's next commercial.