thoughts on large groups climbing on the weekends.

Such large quantities of butthurtedness happening here. This is the sort of thing that makes me not want to be around most climbers unless I'm climbing. I get so tired of the back and forth climber spray; who can claim more adherence to ethics, Who can gripe the loudest about bringing animal to the crag (which is ahem OUTDOORS), who can yelp the hardest about some climber with a different way of thinking or doing things. Please. Do you people like climbing or riding the ethical high horse?

I like climbing, not listening to douches who can't follow Rule #1.

Semmtexx wrote:Such large quantities of butthurtedness happening here. This is the sort of thing that makes me not want to be around most climbers unless I'm climbing. I get so tired of the back and forth climber spray; who can claim more adherence to ethics, Who can gripe the loudest about bringing animal to the crag (which is ahem OUTDOORS), who can yelp the hardest about some climber with a different way of thinking or doing things. Please. Do you people like climbing or riding the ethical high horse?

Let me see if I have this right. You troll MP leave lame comments and you hate this part of the climbing community? Makes sense.

Miike wrote:Next time take your pants off and start bouldering around the group. Ask for a spot.

I have to +1 this as well... always give'em the goat.

This all happened with me about 50' away - True story. Big group has an entire area of easier routes with ropes on them. Everyone is eating lunch - a guy walks up with two kids - he's about 6'4" and 230#, rough looking fellow - asks if he can take his kids up a route, they say no. He says "you have two minutes to pull your rope" and looks at his watch. I hear "times up" and down comes the rope. He takes his kids over to the next route - looks up and then over at the group. Guy runs over and pulls that rope - kids go up. Five minutes later the group is GONE like they never existed.

Chris Rice wrote:This all happened with me about 50' away - True story. Big group has an entire area of easier routes with ropes on them. Everyone is eating lunch - a guy walks up with two kids - he's about 6'4" and 230#, rough looking fellow - asks if he can take his kids up a route, they say no. He says "you have two minutes to pull your rope" and looks at his watch. I hear "times up" and down comes the rope. He takes his kids over to the next route - looks up and then over at the group. Guy runs over and pulls that rope - kids go up. Five minutes later the group is GONE like they never existed.

most excellent father!

Chris Rice wrote:This all happened with me about 50' away - True story. Big group has an entire area of easier routes with ropes on them. Everyone is eating lunch - a guy walks up with two kids - he's about 6'4" and 230#, rough looking fellow - asks if he can take his kids up a route, they say no. He says "you have two minutes to pull your rope" and looks at his watch. I hear "times up" and down comes the rope. He takes his kids over to the next route - looks up and then over at the group. Guy runs over and pulls that rope - kids go up. Five minutes later the group is GONE like they never existed.

probably the best post I've read on MP to date!

blackdiamondequipment.com/s…

Chris Rice wrote: Everyone is eating lunch - a guy walks up with two kids - he's about 6'4" and 230#, rough looking fellow - asks if he can take his kids up a route, they say no. He says "you have two minutes to pull your rope" and looks at his watch.

Terminator one, excellent.

ViperScale wrote: I am totally one of those people. I go with small groups normally and we set up alot of ropes sometimes, but I have no problem with others climbing on my ropes. I have helped others finish routes that they couldn't reach the top etc. If someone had a rope set on a route and weren't climbing it and said I couldn't climb on their rope I would just pull it and laugh at them as I ran up the wall.

This seems contrary to the the practice you described. If you show with a small group, why would you need to set up a bunch of lines if there are only a few of you? I'm curious as to the thought process. Are you reserving the route? Are you just trying to save yourself another trip to the top of the rock when you want to switch routes, etc. I've pretty much always climbed the route I'm on, and when I'm done with it, I move to another one. Why all the rigging?

BTW, gang top roping has gotten really bad at Joshua Tree, since it's pretty easy to hike to the top of most things. I once spent a good part of the morning driving around the entire Lost Horse area unsuccessfully looking for something that didn't have a rope hanging off it. Not someone actually climbing it mind you, just the rope hanging there.

Fat Dad wrote: I once spent a good part of the morning driving around the entire Lost Horse area unsuccessfully looking for something that didn't have a rope hanging off it. Not someone actually climbing it mind you, just the rope hanging there.

Yeah, that really pisses me off. When I take a big group, I make sure someone is climbing on the ropes constantly, or we pull them. There is this constant polling of the group as to who wants to climb this route or that route. When people show up, we offer the rope or tell them they can pull it. And I do notice when people show up. In fact, I do very little climbing myself until it's time to clean routes.

Fat Dad wrote: I once spent a good part of the morning driving around the entire Lost Horse area unsuccessfully looking for something that didn't have a rope hanging off it. Not someone actually climbing it mind you, just the rope hanging there.

driving around after everyone else got the rope up, enough said really. I bet if you got out of the car and walked on over you could have done anything you wanted by either playing ^tough guy^ or just smiling and asking

Miike wrote: driving around after everyone else got the rope up, enough said really. I bet if you got out of the car and walked on over you could have done anything you wanted by either playing ^tough guy^ or just smiling and asking

Well it's too bad I didn't have you there to tell me what to do. Problem solved! I generally get there early. This was post lunch after we had already gotten some climbs in but we're looking to climb somewhere else. Kind of helps when you know the facts instead of making assumptions.

Trust me when I say that I've dealt with the problem enough to know that it doesn't always work out nicely. I am looking to enjoy myself and have fun climbing, not confronting people. Two, based on my many prior experiences, probably more than half have said 'no' when I've asked to climb something. I have no problems getting in someone's face (I'm a lawyer; I do it for a living) but I look to avoid that experience when I go climbing, not incorporate it into it.

Fat Dad wrote: Well it's too bad I didn't have you there to tell me what to do. Problem solved! I generally get there early. This was post lunch after we had already gotten some climbs in but we're looking to climb somewhere else. Kind of helps when you know the facts instead of making assumptions. Trust me when I say that I've dealt with the problem enough to know that it doesn't always work out nicely. I am looking to enjoy myself and have fun climbing, not confronting people. Two, based on my many prior experiences, probably more than half have said 'no' when I've asked to climb something. I have no problems getting in someone's face (I'm a lawyer; I do it for a living) but I look to avoid that experience when I go climbing, not incorporate it into it.

sorry, you describe yourself as being fat and then go on to say you drive around in a national park looking for climbs to get on. that deserves a bit of heckling sir.

I have driven past Hemingway buttress before because of mass amounts of climbers but thats my experience of driving in Jtree looking for climbs. I once hiked to the Astrodome just to get shut down by some NOLs group, that was a bummer cause we didnt want to get anywhere near those loudmouths.

Mike, no worries. The "fat" label was picked in a moment of self pity after several years of very little climbing after having kids. Softer than my lean prekids days but far from fat. Nowadays, I just drive by Hemingway, etc., as well. Just too crowded. I like people, but just dislike crowds. Even a 10 minute hike is enough to keep most folks away, so that's what I do.

Leif E wrote: probably the best post I've read on MP to date!

+1!

Like I said before, ssspppraaaaayyyy.

jarthur wrote: The only way I see to get around this for popular weekend areas is to get up super early if you want to hop on those easy/moderate classics and to climb harder

I spent the last two years climbing in the New , I was always happy to see people. If you climb harder than 5.10 and climb when the conditions are good the New is either a ghost town, or you run into the same 6 other climbers you always run into.

When I see a climb I want getting the tr gang bang, I politely request to lead the route after the next tr'er is finished.

Some people really don't like confrontation though, and feel weird about asking for their turn on the climb. So I think that while its important to ask your turn, if you are the one with a top rope set, its really nice to offer up the lead to other groups showing up at the crag. A lot of times they want the route but maybe feel rude asking for it.

It can be a touchy situation: n00b climber struggling on tr, you walk up to ask when will they be done with the route. If they're overly sensitive, the climber or their belayed might feel insulted, esp. If they are n00bs whose egos are tied up with an appearance of competence. So people don't always ask, since they don't want to appear insulting to the topropers.

Eric Chabot wrote:When I see a climb I want getting the tr gang bang, I politely request to lead the route after the next tr'er is finished.

And I would politely tell you no, you need to wait until we're done. As long as we don't leave ropes unattended and are actively climbing/flailing on it, we'll climb til we're done, then you can climb on it.

You don't get priority because you want to lead it.

This has been covered, but...get up earlier or find something else to climb. First come, first served.

Edit: I am referring to single-pitch climbs. If a group is tying up the first pitch of a multi-pitch, that's a different story.