Educate me on grading!

So I have never been in ice and honestly have no serious plans to do so. I am very curious about the gardening though. I understand how normal routes and boulder problems are graded but what about ice.

Would it be effected by the quality of ice, length, approach?

affected by how cold it is. WI5 means stay home with hot chocolate

Gardening ice routes is not exact science. Haha..

A 3 can be a 5 if the route comes in thin or flash freezes. A 5 can be a 4 if the route becomes fat from mild temps or it gets fed lots of water. Grades are just a suggestion. You need to evaluate the route everytime you start up and give it your own grade. That's part of the fun. Ice routes can different every year.

I don't know much either but I'll tell you what I do know. If you see WI in a rating it means Water Ice, which is formed from waterfalls or natural ice flows that form when water runs off slopes. If you see an M in the rating that means mixed and the climber will get to clip bolts on a rock wall or place gear in a crack in addition to placing screws in an ice flow that more than likely is a chandelier formation formed from a drip somewhere on a slope rather than a frozen waterfall. From there, Water Ice 1, Water Ice 2 ect, (WI1, WI2, ect) and Mixed 1, Mixed 2 (M1, M2) the higher the number the steeper the ice or the more sketchy the pro. I do very little ice climbing and know that WI2 is my limit. Someone else will more than likely give a more complete answer but this was enough to get me started and since I am bored and all...now you might have enough to get started as well.

This is a useful link:
Wiki Ice Grading

As mentioned above though, the grade will vary considerably depending on conditions.

I agree, gardening is very interesting stuff.

alpinist.com/p//climbing_no…

From a rock climbing perspective, grades mean harder moves or more endurance.

For ice this plays a role up to about 3+ but after that, it's pretty much all related to how difficult it is to get a good stick and the difficulty in placing screws or the absence of protection opportunities. The movement and endurance sort of maxes out. It's very very rare to pull a move that would even be comparable to 10c or 10d at the local sport cliff. Of course you have a much worse pump from overgripping, you're cold, in my case my fingers are almost always numb (reynauds), you're run out, you don't trust the gear you do place (it's probably OK), and you can't move until you get a stick and that can take a lot of work. This all makes it feel hard even though the moves are things most of us could do in our sleep.

Interestingly enough, at the higher grades above 7. Mostly mixed but ice in the sense of Hemleken Falls, it goes back to difficulty like rock and isn't terribly related to danger or gear.

nicelegs wrote:From a rock climbing perspective, grades mean harder moves or more endurance. For ice this plays a role up to about 3+ but after that, [...] The movement and endurance sort of maxes out.

By 3+ I think you mean 6, and as far as technical difficult goes, that's why mixed grades exist (to say that WI4-6 do not require more endurance than 3 apart from gear placement issues is downright absurd).

I meant steep 3 is not significantly different from just difficulty of moves (IE, on toprope) than 6. The difference is in all the other factors that I did mention.

Seems like it's about the same as other grades where most can't agree. I get the jist of it though. It's always seemed really fun to me but not much ice in southern ohio!

climbing friend,

The point of the gradings most is for start argument in climbing forums about the gradings. This will bring you much great satisfaction of the internet forums!

Aleks, Would you reccomend 4-plan and cheezesteaks for flashing winter routes as well? I always have a better time when I flash ice routes, as opposed to redpointing.

nicelegs wrote:From a rock climbing perspective, grades mean harder moves or more endurance. For ice this plays a role up to about 3+ but after that, it's pretty much all related to how difficult it is to get a good stick and the difficulty in placing screws or the absence of protection opportunities. The movement and endurance sort of maxes out.

I hope you're not saying that a grade 5 or 5+ pitch requires no more endurance than a 3+.

Because, to repeat a phrase from above, that's simply absurd. Point a solid 3+ leader at some of the big routes at The Lake and see how they do. Hell, get 'em on TR so they don't need to deal with screws; they'll tell you why it's different than climbing grade 3.

For me, ice is completely about control. It is entirely a matter of mental control.

I'll grant that there exists a baseline fitness level, both endurance and technical skills, to climb. Most 3+ climbers are still working out these two in tandem. When one falls short, the other suffers.

Every season it seems that I get in this discussion either in real life or here and every year, the butthurt is of sand and no lube proportions.

I've probably spent a total of 8 days on ice in the last 5 years. My boots are from 2001. Nothing I have is newer than 2006. Yet, on each of my few outings in those years, I've comfortably led 5's immediately. It's certainly not my rock fitness spilling over (I don't have any), I've dropped 2 full number grades in that time and can't send some routes that I used to warm up on.

Fact is, in terrible shape, completely rusty, I can take my old tools and climb as well as I ever could. If that isn't a case for mental control and technique, I don't know what is.

All ye butthurt act like I'm insulting you when I say that ice climbing is physically easy. It's beautiful, it's gratifying, it's adventurous, it's unpredictable, and it's fun. So what if it just isn't that hard?

WI 2 low grade solo able terrain of ice where you can get no hand rests by just shifting your body weight at any time, WI 3 cascading but still low grade ice spaced about twice body length with rests possible on ledges, WI 4 vertical ice with good small ledges and steps where rest can be possible with some craft, WI 5 Vertical ice with overhanging chandelier and or narrow pillar and or super thin ice involved rests are random and require some planning, WI 6 all chandelier all the time super narrow and balance requiring veer ice super thin scrape ice rests may not be possible for quite a while.
Ice is always changing. Even after you just climbed it. It's impossible to climb the same exact route more than once. First ascends are at times irrelevant and area specific only.

Ice climbing is surely scary on lead. Cos you are not supposed to fall....no clipping sport draws here. You pretty much climb like you are soloing it but still put pro in. You can cheat all you want on ice. Anything goes , hanging on leashes, fifiing into tools and screws, knees, body wedging anything just to get you up safely and not kill your belayer in the process. Cos on ice it's all good. Everybody still thinks you are a BA! Hehehe

rating ice on toprope doesn't count

The easiest way to understand ice grades is to climb some ice... it'll put it all into perspective. Seriously. It's way easier to understand once you've tried it.

But, just for a bit of late-night fun, here's my take, based on five years of ice climbing (250+ days) in the Canadian Rockies:

WI1 - frozen lake
WI2 - frozen river, i.e. some steps in here, a bit more 'featured'
WI3 - steepens up but with good technique, you can usually get up this using crampons only, i.e. without tools
Wi4 - fairly vertical, needs tools, but you get breaks for your calves
WI5 - usually, the long, boring, vertical stuff, ok tools, decent feet, trustable gear, vertical most of the way, no rests, meh
WI6 - the fun stuff, overhanging, featured, thin, more technique intensive than 5 but often requiring less outright endurance, generally shitty pro overall, super fun climbing though

Let's not involve M grades in a WI discussion, that's a whole different conversation!

Buff Johnson wrote:rating ice on toprope doesn't count

Who ever does that?