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M Sprague
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Nov 18, 2014
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New England
· Joined Nov 2006
· Points: 5,090
This is why I hate it when people place bolts too far apart so that you are totally relying on one bolt to keep you off the ground. Some times you can't help it without being completely ridiculous, but don't be a cheap bastard or boneheadedly macho. The whole point of bolts is to make the climb reasonably safe. I remember seeing that a lot down south where every bolt for three bolts up the last one is all that keeps you off the ground, and then through the roofs one would be clipping every 3-4 feet ??!
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Morgan Patterson
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Nov 18, 2014
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NH
· Joined Oct 2009
· Points: 8,960
sanz wrote:^ can we talk about the reflexes on that guy who jumped the cable twice??? what an athlete how did he know to jump twice??? looked like his back was to the cable!
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Brian
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Nov 18, 2014
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North Kingstown, RI
· Joined Sep 2001
· Points: 804
Old Sag wrote:... One mitigation for the rope unclipping from a dogbone draw is to make sure the biner gate is facing away from the direction of rope travel. Admittedly this is hard to do in practice. Yeah, the mantra "spine towards the line" is Sport Climbing 101 yet I frequently see climbers not doing this. Sometimes it is not obvious where you will go above the bolt and what the direction of a potential fall will be, but most times it is. Sport climbers religiously do not back-clip yet in many cases they don't think about the orientation of the biner.
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runout
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Nov 18, 2014
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Jun 2013
· Points: 30
Brian wrote: Yeah, the mantra "spine towards the line" is Sport Climbing 101 yet I frequently see climbers not doing this. Sometimes it is not obvious where you will go above the bolt and what the direction of a potential fall will be, but most times it is. Sport climbers religiously do not back-clip yet in many cases they don't think about the orientation of the biner. A bit off topic, but that has got to do, in no small part due to climbers come from the gym more often these days. You can't pass a lead test without knowing what back clip is, but not once in all the gyms I have visited have I heard people even talk about this. Only from old school climbers. Anyway, I still think there are two issues here: One is rope unclipping from a rigid draw and the other is the accident in Eldo where the biner unclipped from open-ended slings.
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bearbreeder
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Nov 18, 2014
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Unknown Hometown
· Joined Mar 2009
· Points: 3,065
Brian wrote: Yeah, the mantra "spine towards the line" is Sport Climbing 101 yet I frequently see climbers not doing this. Sometimes it is not obvious where you will go above the bolt and what the direction of a potential fall will be, but most times it is. Sport climbers religiously do not back-clip yet in many cases they don't think about the orientation of the biner. For trad climbing its often not clear which way the biner should face Heres an example from an easy climb we did today ... Do you face the gate to the right against the feature or to the left (i keep to the left of the rope a bit) and possibly load it against the edge of the crack You can also see how either the top and bottom biners can get loaded in the hand sized crack Getting the biners loaded inside or against lower angle cracks are fairly common here And when its locked in position or hitting the crack especially as the rope comes taut with drag or a fall, the gate can open As to bolts ... There are many a slab climb in squamish which has runnout bolting where the failure/unclipping of the draw would mean bad things ... I can name several beginner routes where this is the case Its prudent to use lockers on such key pieces, or even better, two opposed draws Or better yet, just dont fall
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Benjamin Brooke
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Nov 19, 2014
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San Pedro, CA
· Joined Apr 2012
· Points: 1,050
Michael D Hodges wrote:If your extending a piece with an alpine draw you can always put your racking Biner on the rope end too you have 2 biners opposite and opposed, seems quick and easy way to make sure the rope won't unclip this is something i have started doing a lot more after reading about the tragic accident out in Eldorado Canyon. its slightly more convenient than reaching for an extra locking biner and just as bomber. if its a nut i either use a locker or borrow a biner from an alpine draw...just clip to the racking biner on the next cam you extend....a very simple and effective method of being extra sure on critical placements. this and placing multiple pieces at a crux, or after a long runout are things that i don't see talked about enough. sometimes i even get a couple comments teasing me for placing too much gear or being too careful from my climbing partner....i think if he read some of these accident reports he would think a little bit differently. i notice that some climbers dont fully realize when they are in a situation high on a climb that one piece/bolt failing could be catastrophic. just because the first third of the climb is sewn up with bomber gear doesn't mean that a piece failing near the top won't land you on the ground. i know the probability of a sling unclipping itself is relatively low, but as we have learned it can happen even if we do everything "right".
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Suburban Roadside
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Nov 19, 2014
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Abovetraffic on Hudson
· Joined Apr 2014
· Points: 2,419
redundancy redundancy I even know how to spell it with out spell check Redundancy Redundancy I even know how to spell it with out spell check
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Richard M. Wright
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Nov 20, 2014
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Lakewood, CO
· Joined Jan 2001
· Points: 9,090
The comments here are quite interesting. I wonder if one of the companies producing biners (Camp, Petzl, BD, etc) has any data they could add. It might be worth making some head-to-head comparisons.
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rging
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Nov 20, 2014
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Salt Lake City, Ut
· Joined Jul 2011
· Points: 210
Rotate the caribiner 180 degrees so the gate opens up not down.
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Larry
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Nov 20, 2014
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SoAZ
· Joined Jan 2006
· Points: 50
rging wrote:Rotate the caribiner 180 degrees so the gate opens up not down. It won't always stay that way.
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Jason N.
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Nov 20, 2014
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Grand Junction
· Joined Mar 2011
· Points: 10
Larry wrote: It won't always stay that way. And only really feasible with alpine/trad draws.
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Owen Witesman
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Nov 21, 2014
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Springville, UT
· Joined Feb 2014
· Points: 111
A couple of months ago I had a biner on the rope end of a draw at the top of a sport TR unclip on me, leaving me only the second draw between me and a forty foot ground fall. Ironically, I almost always insist on one of those biners being a locker, but hadn't said anything that time. In retrospect, I think I must have been hiking myself up closer to the anchor in preparation to go direct into the chains and had that biner twist or something.
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