Bent Gate with Aiders??

20 kN wrote: To reduce the chance of the daisy coming unclipped if I end up with the daisy on the gate side. I dont really see any advantage to using a bent gate. The stuff I aid is really steep most of the time, so the biner doesent come into contact with the rock too much. Even if the rock completely opened the gate, I would really care as the aider is not going anywhere since it's weighted, and the daisy is on the spinde-side so there is no way for it to come unclipped. I dont use the four aider method, and I dont really stand in my aiders with both feet. I stand in the aider with one foot most of the time, but I aid climb in approach shoes and not climbing shoes. I prefer lines that are either 100% free (with maybe some french free) or 100% aid, so I get to avoid having to use climbing shoes on most aid pitches. I top step every placement as it's way faster than not doing it for me. I use the Yates adjustable daisies, and they are super easy to get into the top step with. It takes little extra time, and it removes maybe 10 or so extra placements along the length of a pitch. If I were using a different adjustable or a fifi, than top stepping would take more time and it might negate the advantages. I try to avoid top stepping on overhanging stuff though (mild top step in rung #3 is okay, but not rung #2) as it is really easy to flip yourself upside down which, if the piece pulls, you can end up in a really shitty situation really fast.

20 kN - Can you give the run through of the steps you take after placing a piece...through placing the next one when top stepping? I every time I shorten my Yates adjustable vs using my fifi, it seems I have more mess...and have to lengthen the Daisy after every move...but at the same time, have a really hard time getting into the top step because the fifi leash is to short. i have tried the adjustable fifi but had it slip a few times...

Thanks!

Petzl owall

Leonard Z wrote: 20 kN - Can you give the run through of the steps you take after placing a piece...through placing the next one when top stepping? I every time I shorten my Yates adjustable vs using my fifi, it seems I have more mess...and have to lengthen the Daisy after every move...but at the same time, have a really hard time getting into the top step because the fifi leash is to short. i have tried the adjustable fifi but had it slip a few times... Thanks!

I dont use a fifi at all. My setup is two Yates adjustables, two oval biners, and two aiders (classic wall step type, not the alpine aiders with staggered steps. I paint the top half of my two biners with spray paint so that when I reach for them I instantly know if the biner is upside down or not. I ensure that the daisy chain is on the spine side of the biner, and the aider is on the gate side of the biner so when I top step and the daisy flips from the bottom of the biner to the top, it doesent get hung on the gate and come unclipped. I also use matching color daisys and aiders to reduce confusion and tangles. Red for right and whatever other color for left (which is green at the moment).

So starting from the belay station; clip one aider and daisy to the belay and top step it. No need to bounce test since it's the belay station. Place my first piece, connect the other daisy and aider to the piece, while standing with one foot in my lower piece, which is holding most of my weight, I put my other foot in the higher, newly placed piece. Sometimes I start out with a hard bounce on the aider, and others I go straight for a daisy bounce test. But no matter what I do, there is ALWAYS one foot on the lower piece and my hand is firmly grasping the lower piece in case the newly placed piece pulls.

Once I am satisfied with the bounce test, I cinch up the upper daisy so my weight is now on the top piece, I extend the lower daisy so I am no longer weighting the lower piece at all. Then I clip the rope to the lower piece, unclip my daisy, fully extend the daisy (important), and clip the daisy to my chest gear rack. Then I climb up the aider, cinching up the daisy as I go, and top step the piece. Repeat for next piece.

Basically, everything is the same as a standard setup, except you dont need a fifi, you just just the adjustable daisies, one for each aider, two total. Dedicate one to your left side and one to your right. Also, I take a sharpee and heavily mark one side of the daisy for twist detection. They get twisted really easy, and if that happens the webbing wont feed through the buckle. That is one disadvantage. You can use normal dasies if they are twisted, but adjustable dasies need to remain untwisted.

Pretty much what 20kN said. On sustained overhanging terrain I've added the Fifi back in. Adjustables just don't quite cinch down short enough for me, which is only a problem on the sustained overhanging terrain (think Mideast Crisis), but I use the dang thing for far less than half the placements.

Back to the bent gate thing...

I started with a pair of petzl spirit keylock bent gates and they worked great. The volume of crap at the bottom with aiders and daisies pretty much maxes them out though, so I went for some larger oval keylock ones. They are a little harder to snag copperheads at the limit of my reach due to the different angle of the nose and larger cross section, but otherwise I am glad with the switch.