Edelweiss Sheath Defect - Curve Unicore 9.8

Small or small diameter biners on those new or new-ish draws? Made by?

The first two quickdraws i used on the first two ropes both had Black Diamond Positron carabiners on them. The third and brand new draw was a Cypher Ceres and the fourth draw was a Petzl Spirit Express. All of the draws were in fine condition, none of the carabiners were grooved or sharp.

I've got one of these ropes as well, mine is a 70M bi-pattern. Bought mine in May and have been using it fairly regular (weekend warrior). It's got a handfull of short falls on it and one 15 footer when a hold broke on me last month. Have not noticed any major sheath issues like in Jay's photos.
The sheath does seem to get nicked/frayed easier than I'd like, but overall I like the rope. I appreciate the heads up Jay, now I'm gonna be all paranoid though. Will definately keep a closer eye on it too.

I experienced a very similar situation with and Edelweiss rope that was a friend of mine's and in some ways it was worse as we did not take any lead falls. The rope was brand spanking new when we took it out, climbed two steep routes and discovered no fewer than three big core shots in the rope when rolling it up for the day. I was flabbergasted to see that kind of damage to a rope that ran through a handful of carabiners and top anchors. I later went back and checked the top anchors to inspect for burrs and found none. There could be no other explanation for what happened that day than a manufacturing defect.

From what I understand in this case the manufacturer did not stand behind their product and had no interest in even seeing the rope. Fortunately the retailer did offer some relief. I'll never buy another Edelweiss that's for sure.

I purchased a Edelweiss Flashlight II 60m 10mm Rope earlier this year. I had climbed on the rope between 6-8 times outside in Clear Creek Canyon in Golden, CO. All climbs had been sport climbs, single pitch, and in the 5.10-5.12 range. I was climbing at wall known as the New Hipster Wall and I was working on a 5.12a called Hipster. The route is very overhanging and is about 6 clips long. It is well bolted and I was using newer quick draws. I had flaked the rope prior to climbing and was switching ends after each climb. After 2 tries on the 12a I was lowering off the top when my belay partner noticed a core shot in the rope that was 10m from the end of the rope and it clearly needed to be replaced. After climbing on the rope for probably a total of 10-12 times and only over a few days, this is an issue I think should be addressed. Whether it be a warranty or manufacturing defect, is very concerning for a rope that has been barely used.

Rope condition after fall

Rope Pic 2

Logan Niebur wrote:I purchased a Edelweiss Flashlight II 60m 10mm Rope earlier this year. I had climbed on the rope between 6-8 times outside in Clear Creek Canyon in Golden, CO. All climbs had been sport climbs, single pitch, and in the 5.10-5.12 range. I was climbing at wall known as the New Hipster Wall and I was working on a 5.12a called Hipster. The route is very overhanging and is about 6 clips long. It is well bolted and I was using newer quick draws. I had flaked the rope prior to climbing and was switching ends after each climb. After 2 tries on the 12a I was lowering off the top when my belay partner noticed a core shot in the rope that was 10m from the end of the rope and it clearly needed to be replaced. After climbing on the rope for probably a total of 10-12 times and only over a few days, this is an issue I think should be addressed. Whether it be a warranty or manufacturing defect, is very concerning for a rope that has been barely used.

Not saying it's not the same thing but the individual threads still look "ok" - note how the OPs rope fibers are disintegrating along a larger length and in a more uniform way. That's what I saw as well with my "bad sheath" rope.

Those pics (Red Rope) look like "Standard" damage over an edge etc.

I had an experience where I was climbing with a few people who had brand new Edelweiss ropes. After just a few top rope climbs, the rope had some nasty sheath abrasion. However, I also have a friend who bought an Edelweiss 70 meter dual pattern (not sure exact model), and he loves it. Perhaps this defect is model specific.

I have the Curve 9.8, not the unicore. It's seen two seasons of moderate use on a variety of rock. I chose it because it had good specs for dynamic elongation and because I found a good deal, though there was already questions about sheath durability. At this point I would not buy another.

The sheath is too weak. Mine immediately showed a significant fray without any incident to cause it. There have been more over time- definitely more in comparison to other ropes- although no core shots yet and definitely nothing like the OP. The rope is also too stiff IMO and develops kinks.

With the original post and the bulk of complaints, it seems like there's definitely a problem. Edelweiss would have to publicly respond to the issue and resolve it for me to trust their product enough buy another. Not just for durability sake, but for safety.

Petzl, Edelweiss, and at one other whose name escapes me have had this disintegrating sheath issue. Makes me want to boycott a whole company but I'm not sure that is the issue. I have a theory.

Most ropes are made on the same machines. Certain companies dial the settings somewhat different for their needs but at the end of the day, there are only a handful of places in the entire world where ropes are made. It only seems logical that these companies are also mostly drawing from the same source material. After all, how many places can you order millions of feet of colored nylon fiber?

See where I'm going with this, when mega company X has an issue with even a single batch of source material, the effects can be felt across the industry. Whats worse, is that good and bad spools are probably mixed up. If it takes 200 spools to make a rope and 1 is bad, there is probably no measurable way tell. If 50 are bad, you start seeing coreshots. When one spool runs out, it gets replaced in line.

Given this, do you see how completely impossible it would be to track the source material? Also given this, I could imagine ropes from one production run could have different properties.

When you think about it, it's amazing we don't see this more.

I wish manufacturers would admit this and replace the few this does happen to. Seems like a reasonable gesture of good will.

Of course this is all just a theory.

I have the same rope as OP, Edelweiss 9.8 Unicore. I haven't noticed unusual sheath wear anywhere, although I haven't taken too many big falls on it, I have jugged on it a bit, and it seems fine so far. This is definitely worrying though.

Has anyone heard of a rope recall recently regarding a certain company or factory? I didn't find anything, although I did have an extremely shitty sterling 9.8 fall apart on me in 2012, and others had similar experiences with the same rope.

John Wilder wrote: Maxim figured out it was the red nylon in their lines that was causing their ropes to fail at 4 falls instead of 5- nobody would ever confirm it for me, but a little thinking it over tells me that its likely that there was a bad batch that got out of the source factory.

The ropes they recalled was the Maxim Pinnacle and Apogee. The Apogee was red, but the Pinnacle was entirely blue. Here is a photo of it straight from the recall:



In fact, they added red to the post-recall version. The pre-recall version has no red in the rope, and the post-recall version has a red tracer running through it to indicate it is post-recall. They also opened the line up adding a second color, which is mostly red with some black. Here is a photo:



So how was the red the reason for the recall when the Pinnacle did not contain any red?

John Wilder wrote: i am always amazed at climbing ropes. they are essentially a zero-error process in theory. they are also one of the few non-redundant things in our system. its mind boggling that manufacturers even make the damn things.

what is more amazing is that there hasnt been a documented case of a modern climbing rope in good condition breaking in normal use that wasnt due to chemicals or cutting over an edge

sure sheaths might wear out buy you would think with the millions and millions of whippers every year by climbers all over the world something would go KAPUT ...

they truly are a marvel of modern engineering

;)

Edelweiss Flashlight II sheath damage from TR'ing on a slightly overhanging route.

Edelweiss definitely lost my business. This Flashlight II was brand new and was destroyed after after a few TR's on an overhanging sport route. My 2 partners and I probably have close to 100 years of climbing experience and checked for sharp edges on the rock, our draws, the chain anchors, our belay devices and there were none. Edelweiss quickly dismissed it as user error. I've destroyed ropes jugging, dropping rocks on them, working with sharp limestone and absolutely realized it was my fault and responsibility. But, for this brand new sheath to accumulate 30 feet of fuzz and completely rupture in 3 separate areas on the rope, Edelweiss must have envisioned one hell of a whipper.....

Well, it seems there is definitely some type of higher-level supply defect with the red colored nylon. That's now six models from three or four manufacturers that are having problems, all different with the exception that they are red. I am surprised the manufacturers haven't been able to identify this yet when it's been well identified on M Proj. Or it is possible the manufacturers are aware of it, but are betting it will cost less to loose your business than do a full recall.

However, I am interested as to why only red colored dynamic ropes are effected. I haven't seen any reports of issues with red webbing, cord, slings or static ropes.

20 kN wrote:Well, it seems there is definitely some type of higher-level supply defect with the red colored nylon. That's now six models from three or four manufacturers that are having problems, all different with the exception that they are red.

In the case of the OP's damage, and with mine, it's not just the red nylon. The op's was mostly the green. Mine is both. The frays on my rope look like there was several sheath threads spliced together at the same place at a couple of spots on the rope. The frays are not the result of an edge or snag. It is a manufacturing defect- or maybe more accurately just a poor method of manufacturing in doing so many thread splices at exactly the same spot. There are neatly trimmed edges just sticking right out of the weave, all in a cluster.

With the OP's ropes, I dunno. Maybe it's the result of their dabbling in the unicore thing. Like the unicore bonded sheath can't handle the dynamic elongation of the rope so it bursts or tears to absorb the energy that the core should be bearing alone. Just a guess- I'm not a rope manufacturer. Would be worthwhile to determine the fall factor? In other words, was the rope elongating significantly while simultaneously being edged over the biner and causing heat/mechanical stress to the sheath? The op said that at first it felt like the sheath was hardening. I recall that the single-strand woven edelweiss ropes warn against fast rappels due to heat damage on the sheath that can cause core shots.

So after blowing through those edelweiss ropes in 20 minutes I obviously didn't want another one, so I replaced the curve unicore with a Beal Booster 9.8. Unfortunately after only two months of occasional use this rope has also already been shot on one end. It basically just wore out really, really fast, it didn't experience failure like the edelweiss ropes did it just didn't hold up for any normal length of time. I attatched a picture that shows the end of the rope completely flat, soft and not willing to hold a coil anymore. Since Beal and Edelweiss are basically the same company i'm wondering if Beal has issues with their sheath's as well. It seems as if both companies are having major problems with quality control coming out of their factories.

Trashed end of a Beal Booster after only 2 months of occasional use.

Jay Samuelson wrote:So after blowing through those edelweiss ropes in 20 minutes I obviously didn't want another one, so I replaced the curve unicore with a Beal Booster 9.8. Unfortunately after only two months of occasional use this rope has also already been shot on one end. It basically just wore out really, really fast, it didn't experience failure like the edelweiss ropes did it just didn't hold up for any normal length of time. I attatched a picture that shows the end of the rope completely flat, soft and not willing to hold a coil anymore. Since Beal and Edelweiss are basically the same company i'm wondering if Beal has issues with their sheath's as well. It seems as if both companies are having major problems with quality control coming out of their factories.

Thats a core issue not sheath

Did you whip alot on it?

Talk to beal about it

;)

Actually it's both, as the sheath wore out extremely fast and then the core went to shit shortly after.

yup I whipped on it a lot. should still hold up more than two months.

Jay Samuelson wrote:Since Beal and Edelweiss are basically the same company i'm wondering if Beal has issues with their sheath's as well. It seems as if both companies are having major problems with quality control coming out of their factories.

Did one buy the other? I thought Beal is French & Edelweiss is German.

Jay Samuelson wrote:Actually it's both, as the sheath wore out extremely fast and then the core went to shit shortly after. yup I whipped on it a lot. should still hold up more than two months.

If you whip on it alot then its not uncommon for sport climbers to chop the end after a few months

Also remember that each time you whip theres quite a bit of friction at the last draw which can keep wearing out the sheath around that point

Hard sport climbers often buy 70m or even 80m in the expectation of chopping the ends in the not too distance future

Swapping ends after every whip or going in direct when projecting to relieve the stress on the rope can help

Also a rope with a higher number of rated uiaa falls can also help with the cores going flat (i expect someone to argue to ill save the trouble and post up mammuts response from steph davis blog)

highinfatuation.com/blog/st…

But at the end if da day if yr constantly whipping youll need to chop the ends sooner or latter

Lead ropes in climbing gyms that see alot of whippers constantly need to be retired

I suggest talking to beal about it

;)