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Is the St. George area livable for a pretty far left non-mormon type?

zliibbe · · Colorado Springs, CO · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 10

I lived in St. George for a couple years working in Wilderness Therapy. Wilderness Therapy (Second Nature Entrada, Red Cliff Ascent) creates a microcosm of people who are transplants and not necessarily your typical Southern Utahan. If you move there, these people are a great community to connect with, and if you want to climb, they will have 6 days off at a time...

I agree with the comments about dating and night life, since I was single while there. And I think the point about job advancement is pretty spot on. It can even be hard to find a place to live when many renters only want LDS renters. Of course, that's not across the board, but it does exist. I agree that St. George feels pretty commercialized, or whatever the opposite of mom-and-pop local is. Lots of strip malls and not a lot of personal flavor, although there are spots.

If you're looking for outdoor-type people they are certainly around, but St. George is it's own beast. My personal conclusion was that it was a great place to live and climb--so much good stuff really close and SLC (4 hrs give or take) and Indian Creek (6 hrs give or take) are close enough for trips; however, it's not a place I'd want to settle or make my home in. It was great for a short term place to live, but I found the culture not what I would want. Take that with a grain of salt since we know nothing about one another, but that was my experience.

Anson Call · · Reno, NV · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 45

This is a funny thread. St. George definitely has a vibe, and it's the polar opposite vibe of most mountain towns. 9 times out of 10, I can spot a St. Georgian just by the "dress code". Look for pastel polo shirts, bleached hair, puka shell necklaces, abercrombie, even visors. Basically anything that signals you just finished a round of golf in the early 2000's. Lots of Mormons, yes. Lots of giant turbo-diesel pickups, too. And old people.

That said, I've never had any trouble getting along with the people down there. I'm sure that you'll find your clique, especially if you hang out at the crags. I've met some great people at Moe's Valley, Snow Canyon, Welcome Springs, etc.

It's a fun place, a beautiful place. Especially in the winter. I think you'll survive.

BackAtItAgain · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 15
Anson Call wrote: 9 times out of 10, I can spot a St. Georgian just by the "dress code". Look for pastel polo shirts, bleached hair, puka shell necklaces, abercrombie, even visors.
The 10th time out of 10 - it's gingham flower print dress with big pulled back hair.. (usually in groups of 3+ ).Make sure to visit the costco - it's VERY cultural....
jaredj · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 165

Are you (OP) currently in Charlottesville (as your avatar suggests)? There for college or other reasons / native? What scale of community are you used to (besides C-ville)? Such information would be helpful in understanding a little more about whether or not it'll be tough.

So many questions that young people ask about "will I like place X" focus on a lot of the tangible aspects of town X, and less on the "how will I weather a transition to a new place where I don't know anyone?", with the latter generally being the more relevant / important question. Kinda like when young people move to a new city / place in their mid 20s then gripe about how everyone is so unfriendly and it's hard to make friends (thinking Seattle, Bay Area, LA, NY, etc). That assertion ends up being more a reflection of our society's organization and the opportunities available to meet people as an adult with a life centered around work instead of an educational setting (in my opinion).

The aspects you're asking about are important, but it's worth a little introspection about the bigger process of relocating in general.

Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945
Mark E Dixon wrote: The majority of posters this time of day are at work, not climbing, hence the bad attitudes.
Bingo...
Dallas Branum · · Denver, CO · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 1,135

If it helps...

I'm currently in C'ville, and came here for work/following a girl about three years ago. Transitions can be rough, but I weathered it just fine, and can make friends most places I go. I'm not a big fan of the college vibe, but do enjoy the locals and access to the hills. I came from Oregon before that, and spent about 7 years in Eugene before heading east if that gives you any indication. I grew up in a rural Oregon town (less than 700 people when I was there.) I like college sized towns which offer good access to nature, but still a bit of culture.

After reading through some of the forums on city-data.com, and some good advice from folks here, it may not be a good fit... even with a dream job waiting on the other end.

jaredj · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 165

Sounds like you know what you're getting into in terms of moving. I just ask because my null hypothesis was that you were college kid in C-ville, and may not have much life perspective on moving around and the associated challenges (that aren't unique to locale, but just setting up shop somewhere new).

It'll be very different than Eugene and C-ville. But could be good for awhile, no? Depending on the job role and time available for climbing, could be a good thing to do for awhile as you sate your taste for the desert climbing. It's easy to think that the next move you make or job you take will be the last, but it never has to be.

Unless a big part of your life is being involved in grassroots activism and/or local politics as an expression of your political leanings, you'll probably be fine even if it lacks that college / hippie vibe (Dixie State ain't Evergreen State..).

Jeff Gicklhorn · · Tucson, AZ · Joined May 2008 · Points: 295
Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945

Great video... i notice though they said they are 30 miles in the middle of nowhere and likely don't see much of town. But maybe thats just the way climbers need to play it out there...

Roy Suggett · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 8,821

You can find bullshit where you make it. LDS to Buddhist, Calif. to UT, left to right, Wall St. J. to MP. Be sensitive, respectful, and NICE to all. Do what yo mama told you and things will be...not great, but ok.

Cindy Mitchell · · Denver, CO · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 65

As an escapee from the mormon cult, I'll relay a quick employment story from the 1980's in SLC. My co-worker and I were given the same performance rating but his raise was substantially more than mine.

I asked our boss about the disparity and was told, "he has a family to support and pays tithing (10% of gross income is paid as a tithe by mormons to the church). You are single and a non-mormon.

True story. This could be the type of treatment you receive in the workplace if you move to St. George. Just something to be aware of as I don't believe the attitudes/actions of mormons has changed according to friends/family currently living in SG.

Good luck!

Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945
Cindy Mitchell wrote:As an escapee from the mormon cult, I'll relay a quick employment story from the 1980's in SLC. My co-worker and I were given the same performance rating but his raise was substantially more than mine. I asked our boss about the disparity and was told, "he has a family to support and pays tithing (10% of gross income is paid as a tithe by mormons to the church). You are single and a non-mormon. True story. This could be the type of treatment you receive in the workplace if you move to St. George. Just something to be aware of as I don't believe the attitudes/actions of mormons has changed according to friends/family currently living in SG. Good luck!
I too work for mormons in CT and i would have to agree. A lot of the 50's sterotypes are well in play. Women belong in the home or kitchen, don't deserve as much pay as men, etc. They hire women here but it is always in subservient roles under males. And just today they came out with the 40 wives letters.

Superiority though breeding... their church understands they must out breed everyone in order to gain wealth and power and they seem to be doing a pretty good job imo. Probably not your style but that's discrimination here in CT and I would have sued.
Tradster · · Phoenix, AZ · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 0
nicelegs wrote:Most of the haters in this thread are absolutely ignorant of how overbearing Mormon culture is, especially so considering we're talking about southern Utah Mormon culture. Based on environment alone, I would probably move there. Are you single? If you are, you can pretty much plan on staying that way. Do you like small independently owned business? Give it up. You'll find coffee and beer. Basically, it'll be a small town that will be even smaller once you find your circle.
Nicelegs...it seems if the person's attitude doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion of politics and social viewpoint, then you just cast negativism their way. You did it towards AZ and now towards Utah. You be paintin' with a very broad brush. I'm not Mormon, yet have had many personal and business dealings with them and never had a problem. Been to Utah over a dozen times for canyoneering, mountain biking, hiking and never had a problem. It seems the issue with you is your very narrow mindset. You'd do better by being more open-minded.
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35
Tradster wrote: Nicelegs...it seems if the person's attitude doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion of politics and social viewpoint, then you just cast negativism their way. You did it towards AZ and now towards Utah. You be paintin' with a very broad brush. I'm not Mormon, yet have had many personal and business dealings with them and never had a problem. Been to Utah over a dozen times for canyoneering, mountain biking, hiking and never had a problem. It seems the issue with you is your very narrow mindset. You'd do better by being more open-minded.
It's nice to see you post without mentioning your foaming at the mouth gun fantasies.

Back on topic. A dozen trips to a place to have fun away from the population is no qualification of knowing an area. I have a great time every single time I go there. That doesn't mean that the OP will find culture, friends, and an interesting varied life there. You need to go to the mall. A county fair. How about "Stadium of Fire" with the Osmonds performing? Having a good time on vacation is not living in Utah.

If you read the posts before responding, you'll note that I mentioned my great grandfather has his name carved into the pioneer cave in Snow Canyon. I also know how Snow got it's name, and it's not a form of precipitation. Mountain Meadows Massacre, yes, some of my relatives were there. My grandpa helped build Zion tunnel. My great uncle owned Kolob Canyons before it became part of Zion, he ran cattle there. What do you think the chances are that I know south western Utah better than you?

As for a dozen trips to Utah? I'd done that many before I learned to walk.
Tradster · · Phoenix, AZ · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 0
nicelegs wrote: It's nice to see you post without mentioning your foaming at the mouth gun fantasies. Back on topic. A dozen trips to a place to have fun away from the population is no qualification of knowing an area. I have a great time every single time I go there. That doesn't mean that the OP will find culture, friends, and an interesting varied life there. You need to go to the mall. A county fair. How about "Stadium of Fire" with the Osmonds performing? Having a good time on vacation is not living in Utah. If you read the posts before responding, you'll note that I mentioned my great grandfather has his name carved into the pioneer cave in Snow Canyon. I also know how Snow got it's name, and it's not a form of precipitation. Mountain Meadows Massacre, yes, some of my relatives were there. My grandpa helped build Zion tunnel. My great uncle owned Kolob Canyons before it became part of Zion, he ran cattle there. What do you think the chances are that I know south western Utah better than you? As for a dozen trips to Utah? I'd done that many before I learned to walk.
Gee, can you post without an insult?
Josh Allred · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 161

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Aerili · · Los Alamos, NM · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 1,875

Social issues aside (you will never be part of "the in-group", no matter what), career advancement is a real conundrum potentially.

You have the fact that you're male going for you, but it's not a panacea. One of my male friends had a job offered to him here in SLC at a well-known local company involved in media. He accepted the offer. Once the hiring manager found out (after these facts) that he wasn't Mormon, the manager wouldn't see him when he came in for a scheduled meeting but told the other staff to lie and say he was out of the office. He then somehow avoided his calls but had the info relayed that the job offer was no longer on the table. This was after my friend had given his notice at his other job in town, mind you. (He found out this info about the cause/effect because another friend of his worked there and had helped him get the interview, thus was privy to the sudden change of heart.)

I have two female friends here who have been shafted on promotions at Mormon-majority companies, one of them four times now. It is not possible to say "for sure" their gender and religious identify was a major factor, but it seems hard to deny when less-qualified, younger Mormon men were offered the jobs instead. One of my friends has been trying to leave the company due to the impact on her career but she doesn't work in a field where jobs are a dime a dozen, even outside the state.

Not saying this is your guaranteed future, but something to consider. Also, I agree that southern Utah is more conservative than mid-state. Anywhere north or south of SLC it gets real different real fast.

Lea Fairbanks · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 0

As someone who moved from Milwaukee to Salt Lake City, I experienced the same concerns.

My experience is that the conservative religious types are pretty tolerant of your/our heresy, and only judge you/us in private. Some are down right curious about the dark side. But they're nice.

The non-religious liberal progressive types tend to be pretty far out there as far as rebellion/crazy shit goes, and I'm saying that as someone who climbs mountains for fun.

It's kind of an interesting dynamic.

St. George is probably a bit different than SLC and I haven't spent time there except for nearby Zion National Park (usually going to SE Utah), but I imagine it's just fine. My experience with Southern Utah is that everyone is happy, friendly, and helpful.

Though inviting a new friend over for beers might be awkward. Try board games instead or something else lame like that.

It's also kind of hard to find a place to live when they all say, "no smoking, no opposite sex visitors, no drinking..." etc on the lease. Basically all my favorite things are outlawed. Everywhere near BYU/Provo does that, but I'm not sure of St. George. And LDS folks are SNITCHES so don't think you can sneak in a 12 pack unless you're crafty.

Aaand yeah :-) I think you should move. It's not bad here.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Southern Utah Deserts
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