GriGri for Trad - Anything to this Impact Force Thing?
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Lets take money, weight, only single rope rappel, lazy, slow to pay out slack, etc out of the equation. Any reason from a safety/impact force perspective not to use a GriGri for trad leading? I have heard a lot of opinions, but any facts supported by real data? |
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It can matter but it's situationally dependent. Petzl has some good info on this HERE |
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I'll take the risk of increased force (and bring a couple Screamers) just due to the risk of knocking your belayer unconscious with rock fall. |
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John Wilder wrote: If the gear is good- I dont think it matters. If the gear is marginal- well, it was marginal to begin with and theres no way of knowing for sure that a different belay device would have resulted in a different outcome. I belay exclusively with a grigri2 these days but if i'm out climbing, i always have the atc-guide with me anyway, so if i think the gear is that iffy, i'll belay with the guide. i'll also lower down from the belay to get more rope in the system and prevent a ff2. i've seen numbers and i'm much more concerned with being able to hold a factor 2 fall with a 9.2mm than i am with a piece seeing more impact force. i'm pretty sure i cant hold a ff2 with a 9.2mm on a tube device. so, if the gear might blow regardless, i'd prefer to have a device in my hand that can handle a high factor fall than one that might kill my partner. ymmv, of course.On point as usual |
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In real life trad situations (rope drag, friction, wandering routes, rope running into cracks) a low impact rope will have as much if not more effect than a grigri vs ATC |
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bearbreeder wrote:In real life trad situations (rope drag, friction, wandering routes, rope running into cracks) a low impact rope will have as much if not more effect than a grigri vs ATC Especially after the rope sees decent use and loses elasticity when it ages I would be much more concerned about my rope than using a grigri As the beal info shows, the more "real life" the climb becomes (drag, friction) the less effect the belay device has ;)What are you using these days? I used to use the Beals but durability made me look elsewhere. I shoot for 8kN impact forces or less if possible. Edelweiss is my current workhorse at 8.1kN |
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mattm wrote: What are you using these days? I used to use the Beals but durability made me look elsewhere. I shoot for 8kN impact forces or less if possible. Edelweiss is my current workhorse at 8.1kNTendon and beals mostly I find 10mm tendons to be pretty durable, cheap and have around 8 kN impact force I buy my cragging ropes for ~80 dollahs Personally i find it quite odd if someone talks about not using a grigri for trad if they are also using a harder catching rope like a maxim Especially moderate trad which wanders and has a lot of drag due to the lower angle ... If you catch falls on those type of climbs youll notice that you may not even feel the catch very much once the person is high enough due to rope drag and stretch (which is a bigger factor on forces on the top runner at that point) ;) |
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Usually not a concern to me except where there is nothing but tiny pro for the first 20-30 feet. |
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Ammon and Flyin Brian were making an effort to free the Dunn route on Angels Landing a while back (2003?) when Brian dislodged a "refrigerator-sized" block that knocked Ammon out cold. Had he not been belayed with a gri-gri the fall could have been a lot longer. |