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Why Are Ice Climbers Such A$$holes?

Stephen Berwanger · · Montrose, CO · Joined Jun 2007 · Points: 290
Alexey Dynkin wrote:I'm confused. Not posting information publicly (for whatever reason) = being an asshole? Does this apply universally, or just to ice climbing? Didn't realize that just because I climb something I'm suddenly obligated to share it with everyone.
I can see why you are confused. Did you read the thread? There is obviously no obligation for you to tell anyone what you've climbed. So you climb something and don't say a word, OK that's fine, do you now "own" that climb? If someone else goes and "finds" that climb, climbs it, and then decides to share it do you have the right to tell the next party they are not allowed to publicly share the climb?
caribouman1052 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 5

Gawd! This is all so serious. I'm glad I don't live in Colorado.

Stephen - I took the original post exactly as Alexey did, that I was being an asshole for not having shared info about a route I'd climbed. The main reason I wouldn't share info goes back to the Aid vs. Free climbing controversy: Let's say I (not the best free climber) put up an aid route, and publicize it. Someone with a way bigger bent shaft tool than me comes along, and free climbs the thing, at, let's say 5.11b. (I know, I know, piss easy by today's standards) Then, in our current ethical climate, they own the route, and I am never allowed back on it, because - surprise!- I can't free it at .11b, although I pioneered the thing. That's the disincentive for sharing.

Eyes & Jason both got the "FA" before me. (BTW, thanks for the compliment on the approach, I'd thought all these years that was pretty normal for Sierra ice. Looking back, compared to Elephant Gully or Frankenstein in NH, that was a doozy. But jeez, what got me was the top-out, flopping around like a fish on a granite bulge, scrabbling around for purchase in a gravel bed with an ice axe? I'm in a cold sweat just thinking about it) But who got the FA before them? If I didn't know that Jason had ticked it, and he didn't know Eyes had ticked it... that opens the possibility that some guy chasing an elk for dinner ticked it 2000 years ago, and anyone who claims "FA" and ownership is being silly. So it seems to me that

-what matters is the climbing-

-nobody owns anything in the outdoors-

-except maybe the style in which they did the ascent*-

-if you want to keep your icey paradise to yourself, don't talk about it-

-be proud of yourself that you climbed that route, not where you were in the sequence of ascentionists. Just because someone else did it first doesn't make the 2nd ascent any easier, especially on ice-

-or, when someone else does talk about, gloat in silence, because you know you were there first-

-or, once the dam has cracked, tear it down, & earn massive karma points by sharing your massive knowledge of the area!

  • -kudos to Jason for ticking the sit start variation! Awesome!
Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280
caribouman1052 wrote:I promise to no longer be an A$$hole, and share with Tug & Superclimber the GPS location of, and beta on my latest sit-start ice filled off-width... which I did the FA of while wearing a Tami Knight t-shirt :-)
Tami Knight!! I wish that girl would continue to write like she did 15 years ago and put out more funny books and definitely a line of shirts with her cartoon characters on them. I don't even remember if my old Chouinard 'hardman' shirt from long ago was actually a Tami Knight character on it,cuzit sure looked like her work,,,,,or something Chouinard put together long ago. Either way she rocked the ice climber cartoons the very best back then.
Christopher.D.Thomas · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 150

FWIW, I just posted topo for an ice climb I found on Pike's Peak to the North Face areas.... so there!!

J. Serpico · · Saratoga County, NY · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 140

Ice climbers are extremely protective of ice, whereas rock climbers can't wait to get credit for the route and spread the beta.

I think this is because while rock routes cab get polished and areas crowded, they aren't as sensitive as ice routes.

You get a guided group top roping in an area and the ice is beat to shit, even if everyone is leading the routes, they can turn into step ladders.

I don't think ice climbers are assholes, they are just protecting a limited resource.

Benjamin Brooke · · San Pedro, CA · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 1,050

I seem to be understanding. Me and a buddy did a new ice climb last season and I told everyone I knew. Even said there was more out there unclaimed. No one went. Im going to have to drag folks there to do stuff this year. I think some depends on where you are....climber to ice ratio. Around here ive only seen picked out ice in chapel pond and pitchoff (roadside crags). Overall I think ice climbers around here have the tendency to not be an asshole.

Scott McMahon · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,425
Benjaminadk wrote:I seem to be understanding. Me and a buddy did a new ice climb last season and I told everyone I knew. Even said there was more out there unclaimed. No one went. Im going to have to drag folks there to do stuff this year. I think some depends on where you are....climber to ice ratio. Around here ive only seen picked out ice in chapel pond and pitchoff (roadside crags). Overall I think ice climbers around here have the tendency to not be an asshole.
Come to the Front Range in Colorado. It's a circus. 10,20,30 people at a small flow.
eyesonice2014 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 140

Nah, go to Colorado Springs and bring a camp of boy scouts on their Hully Gully!....that is if you find it...

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520
eyesonice2014 wrote:Nah, go to Colorado Springs and bring a camp of boy scouts on their Hully Gully!....that is if you find it...
Yeah, that I gave you detailed directions to.
eyesonice2014 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 140
Stich wrote: Yeah, that I gave you detailed directions to.
Ye, you told me to just keep on walking uphill. I remembered the power lines and the little rock wall myself! I will never forget what those crusties at the gear shop put me through over trying to find it. I essentially found it myself in the first place because of my mountain sense.
BTW this tread is not about finding ice. It's about some dude being jacked out of his FA's while his buddies get all the spotlight. So stay on subject.
England · · Colorado Springs · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 270
eyesonice2014 wrote: Ye, you told me to just keep on walking uphill. I remembered the power lines and the little rock wall myself! I will never forget what those crusties at the gear shop put me through over trying to find it. I essentially found it myself in the first place because of my mountain sense. BTW this tread is not about finding ice. It's about some dude being jacked out of his FA's while his buddies get all the spotlight. So stay on subject.
Mountain sense??? This smells like Ellenor. Yeah, I'm one of those crusties...So You can go pound sand!!! and keep looking for those climbs on your own.
eyesonice2014 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 140
England wrote: Mountain sense??? This smells like Ellenor. Yeah, I'm one of those crusties...So You can go pound sand!!! and keep looking for those climbs on your own.
You surely look like a crusty! I don't need your help. Where I'm going the ice is so plentiful they hold frat parties on it!
England · · Colorado Springs · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 270
Christopher.D.Thomas wrote:FWIW, I just posted topo for an ice climb I found on Pike's Peak to the North Face areas.... so there!!
Yeah, thanks for that...First assent???
England · · Colorado Springs · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 270
eyesonice2014 wrote: You surely look like a crusty! I don't need your help. Where I'm going the ice is so plentiful they hold frat parties on it!
Doubtful keep trolling NOOB!
eyesonice2014 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 140
England wrote: Doubtful keep trolling NOOB!
I have no doubts. How bout 4 days off in a row every week and living on the Canadian border? Use your imagination.
Christopher.D.Thomas · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 150
England wrote: Yeah, thanks for that...First assent???
Maybe? I dunno. I haven't heard otherwise.
England · · Colorado Springs · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 270
Christopher.D.Thomas wrote: Maybe? I dunno. I haven't heard otherwise.
That's pretty funny...just buy your crampons/ice tools? Please go back to the desert and climb your tower with your 50' stick clip. Around here loose lips = NOOBS.
and yes I'm an A$$hole.
eyesonice2014 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 140
England wrote: That's pretty funny...just buy your crampons/ice tools? Please go back to the desert and climb your tower with your 50' stick clip. Around here loose lips = NOOBS. and yes I'm an A$$hole.
Make yourself useful and clean the drain pipe of leaves on top of Lincoln falls. Then howl like a wolf into the dark sky "I am an A$$ hole!"
Trad Princess · · Not That Into Climbing · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 1,175

Trollenor = snore patrol

Christopher.D.Thomas · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 150

Well, at least when I troll, I spell "ascent" correctly.

Moral of this story seems to be "don't try to be helpful and share ice formations that people don't know about." You know... To help alleviate crowding at popular places or promote a sense of adventure and community.

But thanks for validating the subject of the thread. Just when you think there's hope for humanity.....

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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