Those fancy hook anchors

Hey,
So the other day I reached the top of a sport route to find those fancy hook-style anchors that you see in climbing gyms. Um… what am I supposed to do with those for setting up a TR anchor? TR directly off of them, or use my own gear? If the latter, wouldn't I be damaging the hooks with my biners? Thanks!

Those Mussey Hooks are perfect for top-roping sport routes; practically made for them. Replaceable after a metaphoric zillion TR's. Just use them and wonder why they aren't on more TR prone routes. (They are the most appropriate TR anchors out there, IMHO.)   EDIT:  Look how excited I was back then!  To be honest, I almost always TR off my own draws and lower my partner on the hooks when we're done.  You should probably do the same.

Top rope on your own gear, unless your willing to help replace them when they wear out. They do wear out eventually and cost $, so why not try and make them last longer.

Gyms are using mussy hooks now?

I'm of the opinion that it's alright to lower off mussies if cleaning the route, but TR on your own gear. They don't wear out quickly, but TR abuse is enough to wear anything out.

To each their own.

"Hook style" probably does not mean mussey hooks in this case, but in any case if you are going to TR you attach your own gear so that it takes the wear of TRing instead of the public anchor, usually a draw on each bolt so that the bottom gates are opposed. Have someone who is experienced show you how. The hooks are made for lowering (that is if they are indeed as you describe).

The aluminum of your carabiners is much softer than steel hooks or hangers so isn't going to significantly affect them. They are not sawing over the metal like the rope would be. Usually you want to clip directly into the hangers, or the bolts if they are glue-ins, not the hooks below, but it depends on the situation. You want to make sure the biners are not being torqued over something or the gates subject to being pushed open. Again, have somebody experienced show you in person. As you can see here, information is lost in translation. People have differing interpretations of what you mean by "hook style anchors". A photo would help.

Check out mountainproject.com/school-… if you haven't already

Hi all,

Thanks for your replies. I googled mussy hooks and that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about this guy:
mountainproject.com/v/10671…

I'm comfortable setting up all types of anchors, just wasn't sure about etiquette on these guys, but M Sprague answered my concern, which was that my biners would damage these anchors, causing rope damage for those who might be TRing off of them. Sounds like my biners won't cause any harm, so I'll just use my own gear.

Thanks!

rob bauer wrote:Those Mussey Hooks are perfect for top-roping sport routes; practically made for them. Replaceable after a metaphoric zillion TR's. Just use them and wonder why they aren't on more TR prone routes. (They are the most appropriate TR anchors out there, IMHO and the ONLY ones I don't use my own gear on.)

Really Rob? Mmmmm, how about you use them to lower and TR on your own gear.

Edubs wrote:Hi all, Thanks for your replies. I googled mussy hooks and that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about this guy: mountainproject.com/v/10671… I'm comfortable setting up all types of anchors, just wasn't sure about etiquette on these guys, but M Sprague answered my concern, which was that my biners would damage these anchors, causing rope damage for those who might be TRing off of them. Sounds like my biners won't cause any harm, so I'll just use my own gear. Thanks!

Ugh yeah, those are called "cold shuts." It's an outdated anchor style. Once they wear through, that's it, and the bolt needs to be pulled to replace them.
(Easier to do at a gym than outdoors.)

User friendly for the climber if they are still intact, but I wouldn't even lower off those. Rap only.

Mussies are normally connected to the bolt with easily removable quicklinks, which makes them simple to replace when they eventually show wear.

rob bauer wrote: Those Mussey Hooks are perfect for top-roping sport routes; practically made for them. Replaceable after a metaphoric zillion TR's. Just use them and wonder why they aren't on more TR prone routes. (They are the most appropriate TR anchors out there, IMHO and the ONLY ones I don't use my own gear on.)

Can we hear an "AMEN" for J. Alber's remark to Rob Bauer.

Use your own gear, Rob!

Lower off but those are no bueno for tr, imo.

YGD.

Cold shuts can be goofy to set up tr on.  Especially if they don't have a gate (some are just open hooks.  

Definitely do not TR on shuts just drop your draws in.  If you wanted you could probably remove the bolt side clip and just thread the dogbone through the shut.  Or use slings.  Might make cleaning difficult.  

For open shuts with no gate really just don't TR but there are clove hitch shenanigans if you wanna trust it.

Don't TR off any fixed gear.  Unless you are a local and know local ethics are different in your area (and or you installed the fixed gear)

Especially don't TR on cold shuts as they are difficult to replace.  Honestly the fact that they are still there shows the area doesn't see a lot of rebolting ect so if they wear out might be a while before they get replaced... 

One of the things many don’t consider is that the rope acts as an abrasive. I’m a jeweler and I use the same technique to polish hard to reach spaces. We lace a length of string lightly coated with rouge through the jewelry and draw it back and forth. This polishes(removes) metal.
The same thing happens at the crag. Your rope has dust and dirt and whatnot embedded in the sheath. As this gets drawn over the hook it wears. Faster than you might think. TR on your own gear then rap down. Lowering wears it down even faster. 

"Simon W. Once they wear through, that's it, and the bolt needs to be pulled to replace them.
(Easier to do at a gym than outdoors.)"

If the bolt is in good shape you should be able to take off the nut, replace the cold shut with whatever you want and replace and torque the nut again.  No need to replace the bolt if the bolt is not rusted.  The technique also works fairly reliable for 5 piece bolts as well as stud bolts.

Benjamin Chapman wrote:

Can we hear an "AMEN" for J. Alber's remark to Rob Bauer.

Use your own gear, Rob!

This was worth resurrecting a 5 year old thread? Just to pick on Rob?

​Fancy hook anchors may get you killed. Or was it weak sauce. ​

climber pat wrote: "Simon W. Once they wear through, that's it, and the bolt needs to be pulled to replace them.
(Easier to do at a gym than outdoors.)"

If the bolt is in good shape you should be able to take off the nut, replace the cold shut with whatever you want and replace and torque the nut again.  No need to replace the bolt if the bolt is not rusted.  The technique also works fairly reliable for 5 piece bolts as well as stud bolts.

All valid points.  I didn't mean to suggest that the holes need to be re-drilled, simply that the fastener has to be removed.

However if cold shuts weren't used in the first place it wouldn't be necessary to remove the nut or bolt every few years when the shuts inevitably wear through (assuming we are talking about a route which is going to see some traffic.)  A lot less straightforward and protentially problematic, as you suggest with rust, than it would be to replace fixed hardware which is attached to a bolt hanger with quick links.

Simon W wrote:However if cold shuts weren't used in the first place it wouldn't be necessary to remove the nut or bolt every few years when the shuts inevitably wear through (assuming we are talking about a route which is going to see some traffic.) 

Are new routes going in with cold shuts for anchors? Are cold shuts really being replaced with cold shuts and not something much better? In 2019?

Marc801 C wrote:

Are new routes going in with cold shuts for anchors? Are cold shuts really being replaced with cold shuts and not something much better? In 2019?

I don’t know about currently but I’ve encountered a few routes in the last couple of years that have new cold shuts on them.

The kind with gates.  In both cases installed with powers five piece bolts.