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Why Are Ice Climbers Such A$$holes?

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
Vincent B. wrote: Yet again, a completely irrelevant to the topic of the thread post from an administrator.
Some turtles can breathe from their buttholes.
Stephen Berwanger · · Montrose, CO · Joined Jun 2007 · Points: 290
Sunny-D wrote:Geeze, I admire guys that are out there getting after it trumping around hunting for the unknown ice. I understand if they don't want to share all their hard work with others. My thoughts are if you want to know where the new lines are get out and find them yourself or even better- trade info- " hey I found this great line you should check it out " I bet that would go along ways to getting info on the ice you are looking for. This thread sounds a little too entitled. " I climb ice so you need to tell me where your stashes are". If you want to know where ice is, go get after it and find some for yourself. Dallen
Sunny D
This is the problem!!! I AM out there finding it for myself. Then when I post on FB or MP I get "oh, I've climbed that before" (with no proof or partner) or "that was my secret stash climb". We are running in circles because people are hoarding anything they find and each individual has to "rediscover it". This creates arguments over FAs and weakens the community. SHARE!!

I also think all the entitlement post are funny as hell!! I'm definitely not asking people to spoon feed me beta. I'm asking the community to record what you've climbed and SHARE, not with me personally, with the community. I'm posting this for the greater good of the community NOT myself!!!
Ben Collett · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 1,560

I have been thinking about this too. Ultimately, we need to get over our own egos and selfishness and be willing to share what information we have. I think if we are all a little more open, we will find there is plenty of stuff to climb with tools. I suppose the flip side is that we should also be more willing to go and take a look and run the risk of getting shut down. There are plenty of routes out there, it is just that not very many of them get traffic. The whole possessiveness thing is quite ridiculous though and we need to try to stop doing it.

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

I enjoy the conditions reports that are wrong. For example the early season report that states things aren't in yet when the ice is fat.

Stephen Berwanger · · Montrose, CO · Joined Jun 2007 · Points: 290
Ben Collett wrote:I have been thinking about this too. Ultimately, we need to get over our own egos and selfishness and be willing to share what information we have. I think if we are all a little more open, we will find there is plenty of stuff to climb with tools. I suppose the flip side is that we should also be more willing to go and take a look and run the risk of getting shut down. There are plenty of routes out there, it is just that not very many of them get traffic. The whole possessiveness thing is quite ridiculous though and we need to try to stop doing it.
AMEN BROTHER!!!!! You and Will have been great about sharing. THANK YOU!!

To everyone else that says my post is "entitlement" or "Practice what you Preach" OK!! I just posted 4 "new" routes in Silverton. How do you like them apples!! HAHA!!

I think its funny how many people think this post was for my own personal selfishness or gain?? That's funny......I do my own leg work

Let the hate mail begin!!!
dips · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2005 · Points: 25

It's laughable that people are trying to paint Steve in a poor light. He puts his own money on the line with a winter grant program and has been a quiet, yet key piece of the climbing community in the San Juans for a long time. I don't expect that to change anytime soon.

Thanks for your dedication and selflessness in the face of assholes. Keep up the good fight buddy.

Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280

ZZZzzz,,just woke up our of hibernation....check in and find early season hate' already for ice climbers? We've got a month or more at least here in Midwest until we get a chance. Most here value the chance to ice climb,,and share climbs, ropes and the time together pretty peacefully, thank goodness. Hope for another Polar Vortex' winter here near Chicago !!..by Thanksgiving I hope.

Stephen Berwanger · · Montrose, CO · Joined Jun 2007 · Points: 290
Vincent B. wrote: Steve, so did you start it all just because someone said they climbed your FA and it was their "secret stash"? Noooo! And you bought THAT?! Hahahahaha. You Crack me up.
No Vincent. Those were just some examples of what I've dealt with. This seems to be a hot topic every year and it seems more and more as years go by. I am very active in the ice climbing community and It has been a topic of discussion with many of my friends. Just wanted to see what the MP feedback would be. I knew it would be entertaining!!!
Vincent B. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 15
Stephen Berwanger wrote: No Vincent. Those were just some examples of what I've dealt with. This seems to be a hot topic every year and it seems more and more as years go by. I am very active in the ice climbing community and It has been a topic of discussion with many of my friends. Just wanted to see what the MP feedback would be. I knew it would be entertaining!!!
It's pretty screwed up. From what it seems you are a legit giving guy, always in the shade of your buddies. Now wanting to put your name on some routes and getting shut down by some crusties. I would be pissed too! I recon you are playing too nice. Be assertive with them mofos. That's why you need to get a GPS gaget. From the looks of it you are not hurting. So get on it. Plot that shit. They will have nothing on you.
As for the opinions on here, you will have a mix. I tell you what, nothing is wrong with wanting some legacy and those fools should be ashamed of themselves for playing you like that!
Sunny-D · · SLC, Utah · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 700

I think people took my post wrong. Stephan I am on your side. I think it's great to share but get fed up when people expect you or whoever to share all their "finds" so they don't have to do the leg work. That is where my entitled comment came from.
I just spent 10 hours out hiking and looking for ice with nada to show for it. I like to share what I find and love when I get tidbits of info from others on where ice is at. I don't like it when people expect me to share up what I have found.
Dallen

Superclimber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 1,310
Tug wrote:Ice climbing is stupid I wouldn't brag about if I was dumb enough to do it. Same goes for off widths. Stupid. Yer dumb.
Maybe, but undoubtedly the dumbest thing in climbing is sit starts.
Stephen Berwanger · · Montrose, CO · Joined Jun 2007 · Points: 290
Superclimber wrote: Maybe, but undoubtedly the dumbest thing in climbing is sit starts.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Best comment on the thread!!
caribouman1052 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 5

I promise to no longer be an A$$hole, and share with Tug & Superclimber the GPS location of, and beta on my latest sit-start ice filled off-width...

which I did the FA of while wearing a Tami Knight t-shirt :-)

Kevin Craig · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2002 · Points: 325
Doug Shepherd wrote:It's laughable that people are trying to paint Steve in a poor light. He puts his own money on the line with a winter grant program and has been a quiet, yet key piece of the climbing community in the San Juans for a long time. I don't expect that to change anytime soon. Thanks for your dedication and selflessness in the face of assholes. Keep up the good fight buddy.
This, as I said.
Vincent B. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 15
caribouman1052 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 5

Last weekend, I went over a bunch of satellite images, trying to find the location of the couloir I climbed back in '89... good luck! I did find out that I was up off of Lee Vining Canyon, so I'm sure the thing is in some guidebook by now. Distance-wise, about halfway between the road up the canyon, and the summit of Conness. Altitude-wise, about the same. North facing couloir, about 25' wide at mid height, narrowing to maybe 12' at the top. Top of ice approx 2.5 body lengths below top out. Largest handholds in approximately 3/8" range, narrow squarish, sharp edges. Tops out into a rounded gravel bed, with an 8'x3' flatish horizontal plate to the right at the top.

Jason Todd · · Cody, WY · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 1,114

^^^^ I did that in 88. But I did the sit start variation.

eyesonice2014 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2014 · Points: 140

Nope, I got that baby in '85. That was before Google Earth and helicopters. The hike up is brutal. I found it projecting during the gold rush.

Scott McMahon · · Boulder, CO · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 1,425

Most ice climbers I meet are pretty cool, and it was awesome awesome running into Jack Roberts who was pretty much the smoothest climber I ever saw. That being said these days there is a rift if you will with ice climbers due to the sheer numbers especially in the Front Range.

With this influx you have alot of newer climbers that don't have the ethics or skills running out to the crags. I'm sure this is due to availability of great gear, classes and guiding and just the general outdoor movement. Unfortunately even to crag you need to be at the cliff by sunrise otherwise you'll be subjected to huge crowds, no-call ice fall, people wantonly smashing ice, throwing down TR's on leaders etc. We've left crags not just due to the sheer number of people, but in the fact we expected someone to get hurt from all the shenanigans. Add in the fact that no one will let any ice grow, because they want to selfishly climb it. That in turn makes everyone else selfish because F-it..they are gonna smash it down anyways.

So sure if I have a nice block of ice some where why would I WANT to share it and see the "look how we ruined this ski town" mentality come in to play? Ice is limited and places like Moffat, Silverplume and Hidden falls get hit up by the BC school classes that bring 15-20 kids to climb. Doesn't seem like anyone is being pushed away and a place like Lincoln that used to be an "alpine crag" is now an alpine sh*tshow.

Just my .02

Alexey Dynkin · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 0

I'm confused. Not posting information publicly (for whatever reason) = being an asshole? Does this apply universally, or just to ice climbing? Didn't realize that just because I climb something I'm suddenly obligated to share it with everyone.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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