graffiti vandal strikes Yosemite

Tony B,

I disagree. Compassion is always appropriate, that is what Einstein is saying. That's not to say that what someone did is okay but to hold an awareness that they are only human. You are connected to them in the same way silence is connected to sound.

We all make mistakes. What is important is what we learn from them. The reality is that people that do this stuff are confused, lost and/or suffering inside. That's a hard place to be and I feel for people in that condition. It doesn't mean I approve of their actions. I've made many mistakes in life and compassion has always done more than punishment to change me.

Regarding the comment earlier by a non American with "US" in front of his name, addressing the idea of jail time for this poor girl being "(Only in America)". Let's put all this in perspective because it doesn't seem too excessive when considering most if not all of the following are NOT illegal in the United States therefore there is no punishment.

In 1994 in Singapore an American man served 8 months in prison and was caned multiple times for spray painting cars. Jaywalk, get caught littering or even forget to flush a public toilet you face jail time. There's a reason why this country is virtually spotless. Very strict laws. With stiff penalties.

Diverging from from Islam in Afghanistan is punishable by death.

Drinking or selling alcohol in Iran is punishable by death as is adultery. Death by stoning.

In Nigeria people convicted of homosexual acts, adultery or drinking alcohol in public qualify for the death by firing squad.

Possession of a single marihuana seed in several asian countries is punishable by life in prison and torture.

How about that disgusting graffiti on the Big Colombia boulder in Camp 4? I hear those hoodlums are calling it "Midnight Lightening" or something? I hope someone catches that no good John Bacher and his delinquent crew.

Edit: Finally our hero James Lucas has delivered us from this appalling testament to the disrespect of nature they call a V8... Armed with only a toothbrush this good Samaritan has cleansed a chunk of granite of it's calcium carbonate scar.

Scottmx426 wrote:Regarding the comment earlier by a non American with "US" in front of his name, addressing the idea of jail time for this poor girl being "(Only in America)". Let's put all this in perspective because it doesn't seem too excessive when considering most if not all of the following are NOT illegal in the United States therefore there is no punishment. In 1994 in Singapore an American man served 8 months in prison and was caned multiple times for spray painting cars. Jaywalk, get caught littering or even forget to flush a public toilet you face jail time. There's a reason why this country is virtually spotless. Very strict laws. With stiff penalties. Diverging from from Islam in Afghanistan is punishable by death. Drinking or selling alcohol in Iran is punishable by death as is adultery. Death by stoning. In Nigeria people convicted of homosexual acts, adultery or drinking alcohol in public qualify for the death by firing squad. Possession of a single marihuana seed in several asian countries is punishable by life in prison and torture.

Sorry misguided I am an American.. That's how I know so much about you. Despite what you say about other countries America still tops all other countries in the world with the numbers of people in prison ,many for minor offenses such as marihuana possession.Not to mention all the record fire arm deaths in the US which I guess you put down to being spotless!!!We are also one of the few if not the only one in the "civilized" Western world who still support the death penalty, often given more than should be to innocent people..
With regards to "Transter's " comments about me being a millionaire and the cost of painting a house costs 3K ...I am not sure what mansion he lives in but I painted my house in Colorado for $100 . I do agree many American Indian markings are superb art ,but like the pioneers and some by the Indians chipped markings and others where done just because like Kilroy they had passed that way...sounds familiar?

USBRIT wrote: Sorry misguided I am an American.. That's how I know so much about you. Despite what you say about other countries America still tops all other countries in the world with the numbers of people in prison ,many for minor offenses such as marihuana possession.Not to mention all the record fire arm deaths in the US which I guess you put down to being spotless!!!We are also one of the few if not the only one in the "civilized" Western world who still support the death penalty, often given more than should be to innocent people.. With regards to "Transter's " comments about me being a millionaire and the cost of painting a house costs 3K ...I am not sure what mansion he lives in but I painted my house in Colorado for $100 . I do agree many American Indian markings are superb art ,but like the pioneers and some by the Indians chipped markings and others where done just because like Kilroy they had passed that way...sounds familiar?

Everything you mentioned is a result of our country's ridiculous war on drugs.

Personally, I think clean up costs, a good ass caning then the stocks would be appropriate for these sorts of crimes. Prison should be reserved for people who are a danger to society, repeat offenders or those who refuse to make good on their actions.

Vandalism!!

Pure Vandalism! How dare they..

Passive Aggression wrote:Tony B, I disagree. Compassion is always appropriate, that is what Einstein is saying. That's not to say that what someone did is okay but to hold an awareness that they are only human. You are connected to them in the same way silence is connected to sound. We all make mistakes. What is important is what we learn from them. The reality is that people that do this stuff are confused, lost and/or suffering inside. That's a hard place to be and I feel for people in that condition. It doesn't mean I approve of their actions. I've made many mistakes in life and compassion has always done more than punishment to change me.

Sure, and it would be with compassion that I'd have her sentenced to go clean up messes for as long as she made them or longer.

Is it just me or do you get the feeling that Tardster is at home oiling up his gun and fantasizing about getting to use it? It's also possible that it's not his gun he's oiling up.

Typical Arizona right winger, there is no point in trying to reason with him, it's best to just ridicule him.

nicelegs wrote:Is it just me or do you get the feeling that Tardster is at home oiling up his gun and fantasizing about getting to use it? It's also possible that it's not his gun he's oiling up. Typical Arizona right winger, there is no point in trying to reason with him, it's best to just ridicule him.

Good point. When dealing with someone different than you, it is always, 100% of the time, best to just peg the person into a hole that allows you to paint them horribly, that way you can win the argument without actually having to say anything meaningful or thought provocative.

Matt Wilson wrote: Good point. When dealing with someone different than you, it is always, 100% of the time, best to just peg the person into a hole that allows you to paint them horribly, that way you can win the argument without actually having to say anything meaningful or thought provocative.

True dat.

dr_feelgood wrote: How many dudes would be comfortable with being called a stupid scrotum? Simple yea/nay poll is fine.

I am comfortable with this.

Anybody that advocates murder for paint is a crazy person. It's not worth debating a crazy person. In this situation, yes, Tradster should be ruthlessly mocked. I suggest key phrases like ammosexual, 9mm phallus, and Ted Nugent.

nicelegs wrote:Anybody that advocates murder for paint is a crazy person. It's not worth debating a crazy person. In this situation, yes, Tradster should be ruthlessly mocked. I suggest key phrases like ammosexual, 9mm phallus, and Ted Nugent.

I'm sorry, where did he advocate murder? Seems like you are adding to his story to fit your stereotype.

Paul-B wrote: I'm sorry, where did he advocate murder? Seems like you are adding to his story to fit your stereotype.

He said he'd pull a gun on someone if they tried to leave. You know, I know, and he knows that he would use it if the perp (who btw, doesn't exist, he's just making up fantasies to get himself frothing) tried to leave. He's just the sort of fanatical gun nut who actually reduce the credibility of all the level headed gun owners out there.

nicelegs wrote: He said he'd pull a gun on someone if they tried to leave. You know, I know, and he knows that he would use it if the perp (who btw, doesn't exist, he's just making up fantasies to get himself frothing) tried to leave. He's just the sort of fanatical gun nut who actually reduce the credibility of all the level headed gun owners out there.

Clearly you need to reread what he wrote. He wrote he would hold a criminal on his property at gun point and said if they tried to leave he would follow them and call the police. Seems like you are clearly omitting sections to fit your stereotype- "you know and I know he'd use it" is not credible evidence. It seems that you have insinuated that everyone that would use a gun to stop criminals on their property endorses murder. It really seems that you are the one fantasizing hunting down 'fanatical gun nuts' and telling them off. Tradster just said he'd hold a criminal on his property at gunpoint. Never said a single word about shooting anyone, in fact said the exact opposite.

Try harder

We have two cases of confirmation bias working against each other. I on one hand believe that someone who posts about guns and wrecking someones finances and numerous times mentioned defending his stuff from a boogeyman he made up is nuts. Furthermore, when it's in response to an unrelated (albeit fairly awful) graffiti incident on public property, it makes him sound more nuts. To add to my own confirmation bias of just how nuts he is, he is from AZ. That state is like #2 (can't beat Florida) in fuckwitted ideas and decisions.

You on the other hand are defending what he said because something about it rang true to you. You are taking the exact words and phrases he used that show in your mind how he's a responsible level headed gun owner (the same thing I'd do in your position). Unless Tradster is seen talking to an empty chair, you are never going to change your mind about the nobility of Mr. Ster.

So where does the truth lie? Somewhere in between. Online I can bench 700lbs and I'm not allowed to compete in the UFC because it would be too dangerous for the competition. I would imagine that Tradster just might not be the gun nut he's coming off as.

I think there has to be a subset of Godwins Law that states that if you derail an unrelated topic with stories of your gun fantasies that your opinion is invalid.

Well I appreciate your acknowledgment of bias. Perhaps we could add an AZ bias to yours... I have never seen anything else that Tradster has written, perhaps I do not read enough forums to judge people. All I was suggesting is that we don't insinuate someone endorses murder when they never said any such thing. Seems like a pretty big charge to level just because "you know he would."

Also, USBRIT sent me a PM calling me a gun nut as well- for using logic on a forum. I own a total of 0 guns. That amused me.

We don't know how many imaginary ones you might have though. ;)

(Edit) Nicelegs...now you're just being a dummy. All while insulting the fine folks of Arizona. Pulling a gun doesn't commit anyone to using it...flag down any police officer and ask. For all you know tradster is trained to use his home defense tool or he's simply able to excerise some self control! Blanket statements and fallacies galore!

Paul...shame on you for taking "exact words and phrases" at face value and NOT reading into things based on your shitty attitude and biases. That's sarcasm btw. Im with you Paul and saw nothing suggesting he would use it. On the contrary he mentioned following said "perp" in his car and calling police with his cell phone. Sounds quite NOT crazy.

Estrogen is German for "fuckwitt" isn't it? Or is it German for crazy?