Rapping directly off bolt hangers
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So I did the first pitch of a climb the other day, and it got a little nasty, so my partner and I decided to rap off. I just ran the rope through the hangars, but they weren't the nice rap hangars, just your regular fixe(?) or similar hangar. Is this bad form? My rope seems fine, but I couldn't help think those are some pretty sharp edges. |
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^^^ somebody prolly stole the biners. Damn traddies' "booty" mentality. |
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It is for sure a belay below the second pitch. I think it is intended that you top out, but we didn't. I will probably leave some old ovals there if I return. |
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Yeah, if it's a multi-pitch climb with a walk-off, it's not going to always/usually have rap rings. Prepare to leave a couple of carabiners or Quicklinks if you decide to bail. |
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Use quicklinks (2 per bolt) and tighten them down with a wrench. They will stay there almost indefinitely, regardless of whether you are supposed to top out or not. |
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nicelegs wrote:Use quicklinks (2 per bolt) and tighten them down with a wrench.... ONLY IF you are certain about the type of metal the bolt/hanger are made out of and match it. Throwing plated quicklinks on SS bolt/hangers would be a no no. |
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Morgan Patterson wrote: ... ONLY IF you are certain about the type of metal the bolt/hanger are made out of and match it. Throwing plated quicklinks on SS bolt/hangers would be a no no.Technically true. In many areas, risk of death from untied shoelaces is probably higher than risk of death from mixed metals. |
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Christopher Gibson wrote:Just a question, if its a multipitch trad route meant to walk off then why would anyone crank down 4 quick links with a wrench to stay indefinitely? Why not just bail off of carabiners.The only reason to do it is if the first pitch is of excellent quality and the second sucks. There are plenty of routes that top out that aren't worth it past the first pitch. Cranky old men and their young henchmen steal biners left at the belay so tightening something in place would be prudent. If you're at an obscure area with a bolted first pitch anchor that's not likely to be repeated soon or ever get popular, no, there is no reason to leave anything permanent if you bail. Run webbing straight through the anchor and rap off that in that situation. |
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Sir Spanxalot wrote:I just ran the rope through the hangars, but they weren't the nice rap hangars, just your regular fixe(?) or similar hangar. Is this bad form? My rope seems fine, but I couldn't help think those are some pretty sharp edges. Thoughts?Besides abusing the rope on the pull-down, depending on the positions of the bolts coupled with the sharp-ish edges, it may be impossible to pull the rope from the bottom. In your case it worked out, but consider the outcome if you couldn't pull the rope and you still had two more rappels to do. In short, don't do this. Leave a couple of bail biners or something. |
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nicelegs wrote: Technically true.And as it happens, principally as well, in fact, its true in all forms ;-P Don't mix metals and if you don't know 100% then just use some aluminum biners. This isn't some existential theoretical threat. I've seen mixed stuff in our state and some parts look new and others bristle as a graham cracker. |
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I carry quad SS Petzl quick links for this situation. Yes metal mix is a no-no, but the SS quick-links on zink plated Fixe's does not provide the same galvanization as SS bolts into Fixe zink hanger, or vice-a-versa. Quick links on a hanger provide a whole lot less contact point, ergo, less galvanization. |
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Dallas R wrote:I carry quad SS Petzl quick links for this situation. Yes metal mix is a no-no, but the SS quick-links on zink plated Fixe's does not provide the same galvanization as SS bolts into Fixe zink hanger, or vice-a-versa. Quick links on a hanger provide a whole lot less contact point, ergo, less galvanization. Is it better to match metals? Absolutely! Is it a sin to place SS quick links on zinc hangers? Perhaps the engineers can provide an absolute answer, but I give it 15 years of life.okay, here's the perspective of an engineer, for galvanic corrosion to take place there has to be an electrolyte between the two metals, in the case of a hanger and a quicklink where there isn't really a place for the moisture to get trapped between them galvanic corrosion will not take place (except when an electrolyte is present). When you see badly rusted quicklinks on a stainless hanger it's generally not due to galvanic corrosion, it's just normal corrosion of the non-stainless steel. Basically, mixing stainless hangers with plated quicklinks is not a problem from a galvanic corrosion perspective, this doesn't mean that the quicklinks won't corrode, but it's not due to mixing metals. |
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Be careful rapping off of plain hangers that don't have rap links or quick link type things attached to them. The first multipitch I ever did, I rapped off of a pair of hangers with not rings or anything and my rope got completely stuck and I had to reclimb up to unstuck the rope (we had an emergency rope). |
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kennoyce wrote: okay, here's the perspective of an engineer, for galvanic corrosion to take place there has to be an electrolyte between the two metals, in the case of a hanger and a quicklink where there isn't really a place for the moisture to get trapped between them galvanic corrosion will not take place (except when an electrolyte is present). When you see badly rusted quicklinks on a stainless hanger it's generally not due to galvanic corrosion, it's just normal corrosion of the non-stainless steel. Basically, mixing stainless hangers with plated quicklinks is not a problem from a galvanic corrosion perspective, this doesn't mean that the quicklinks won't corrode, but it's not due to mixing metals.I'm really glad you responded. I knew that Morgan was being overly dramatic and making a big deal of a problem that either doesn't exist or exists in few places in the world. My 98% in Chem 101 didn't leave me with the tools to tell him why though. Lately, I've done nothing but derail threads, so I let him have his silly little thing. Matching metals does no harm, so have at it. Funny thing, in places where corrosion is a big issue, like Thailand and the Caymans, the glue ins are round and a diameter that doesn't hurt the rope. |
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Dallas R wrote:I carry quad SS Petzl quick links for this situation. Yes metal mix is a no-no, but the SS quick-links on zink plated Fixe's does not provide the same galvanization as SS bolts into Fixe zink hanger, or vice-a-versa. Quick links on a hanger provide a whole lot less contact point, ergo, less galvanization. Is it better to match metals? Absolutely! Is it a sin to place SS quick links on zinc hangers? Perhaps the engineers can provide an absolute answer, but I give it 15 years of life.I agree with Kennoyce, it's not a major concern, especially considering it's easy to replace quicklinks. |
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Sweet, I really want to be a good responsible climber. |
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Well at least you were informed enough to know there are flat rap bolts. I never saw or heard of them before, always saw chains or rings on anchors for rappels. so my partners and I ended up on the incorrect rap line (one that had rings). My understanding is rapping off bolts is a no no. If oriented right they could cut the rope or the rope could get stuck. |
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nicelegs wrote: I'm really glad you responded. I knew that Morgan was being overly dramatic and making a big deal of a problem that either doesn't exist or exists in few places in the world. My 98% in Chem 101 didn't leave me with the tools to tell him why though. Lately, I've done nothing but derail threads, so I let him have his silly little thing. Matching metals does no harm, so have at it. Funny thing, in places where corrosion is a big issue, like Thailand and the Caymans, the glue ins are round and a diameter that doesn't hurt the rope.Fair enough... carry on. |
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J. Serpico wrote:Well at least you were informed enough to know there are flat rap bolts. I never saw or heard of them before, always saw chains or rings on anchors for rappels. so my partners and I ended up on the incorrect rap line (one that had rings). My understanding is rapping off bolts is a no no. If oriented right they could cut the rope or the rope could get stuck.Getting stuck is far more likely than being cut. You can thread the rope directly through these but not regular bolt hangers. Not many folks using them anymore on new routes, but there are many currently installed in the wild. |
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Just to throw in my engineering two cents on the discussion on combining metals: |
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As mentioned above I would use a ditch sling to rap off rather then run the rope through the hangers. |