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Toe maintenance

Original Post
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

90% of my toes work almost exactly as they should. 10% of my toes are so bad that I can't think straight.

History of my right big toe, unabridged.

I felt the first pain in it around 2007. It was annoying for a month and went away. It got rather bad again in late 2009. So bad that I couldn't wear shoes and couldn't walk well. I went to my ortho guy and he injected it with cortisone. All the hair fell out but the pain went away.

It was pretty good for a while but it got bad again. In the fall of 2011 it got injected again, this time I also had x-rays. Doc said turf toe. I looked up turf toe and I don't actually believe that is what I had. Anyway, he got his shot in much deeper by freezing the toe and nearly making me cry with a big needle. This time the toe not only stopped hurting but also got a lot of mobility back. I'd have occasional pain but I could usually grab the toe and crack it and it'll feel a lot better.

It's been getting bad again since this summer. It got to the point after a day of climbing, it would throb so bad that I couldn't sleep. Ibuprofin and Australian dream have kept me going.

In the last month I have lost the ability to crack it again. Now, after a day or two of climbing, I am hobbled up. I have to walk on my heel and it takes the better part of a week to be able to consider climbing shoes again. Training is out of the question.

Edging shoes are Miura's and Anazazi, downturned are Testarossa's, gym and cracks are flat foot footed Defy. I also have a pair of brand new TC Pros I'll wear someday on something. All are sized snug and don't crush my toes. None of them are loose. I don't think I could climb how I like to climb if I switched to loose. Even if I did, I'm afraid I'd hurt my toe more since it'd have to support a lot more of my weight.

My rheumatologist (unrelated to my joints but she knows a thing or two about arthritis) has offered to inject it, and I will definitely take her up on that offer.

So, once I get it shot up, and get it moving again, what would be a good course of action to keep it going. I realize one shot every 3 years isn't a huge problem, so maybe I should just do what I do. Still, it'd be awfully nice to figure out a way to keep my toe feeling better between shot.

eric schweitzer · · Bend, OR · Joined May 2011 · Points: 70

tc pro's have a tensioned band running the length of shoe to give more edging power. So, a shoe like that could be fit to your foot looser with less loss of performance perhaps. Down-turned shoes, and even Miura's, can't be doing your feet any favors.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

See that is a dilemma, I should have mentioned in my OP that my shoe choice isn't really up for dramatic change.

I'd rather sit online and spray all day about what I used to climb than be relegated to chuffer n00b bulk shoes on weakmo warmup routes.

I'll rephrase my long OP.

My shoes aren't overly tight. I can't reasonably get looser ones. I like to climb 12a/b vertical sport routes and 12a ish trad routes. I'd like to climb 13's once again in both disciplines if I can get my free time and toe sorted out. What can I do other than quitting climbing or switching to clown shoes can I do to keep my toe happy after my next injection of cortisone?

frankstoneline · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 30
nicelegs wrote:See that is a dilemma, I should have mentioned in my OP that my shoe choice isn't really up for dramatic change. I'd rather sit online and spray all day about what I used to climb than be relegated to chuffer n00b bulk shoes on weakmo warmup routes. I'll rephrase my long OP. My shoes aren't overly tight. I can't reasonably get looser ones. I like to climb 12a/b vertical sport routes and 12a ish trad routes. I'd like to climb 13's once again in both disciplines if I can get my free time and toe sorted out. What can I do other than quitting climbing or switching to clown shoes can I do to keep my toe happy after my next injection of cortisone?
Have you tried a stiffer shoe? Some years ago I had a big toe issue and climbed pretty exclusively in galileos, which i sized comfortably (read: snug but not pressure inducing) and saw little to no impact on the grades I was climbing but the toe stayed un-pissed. Scarpa made (might still make) some good, stiff, fairly downturned shoes (feroce's i think?) that might satisfy a similar bill.

You might also look into the stonelands, they're designed to be a flat foot (less smashing) shoe and still edge well.
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35
frankstoneline wrote: Have you tried a stiffer shoe? Some years ago I had a big toe issue and climbed pretty exclusively in galileos, which i sized comfortably (read: snug but not pressure inducing) and saw little to no impact on the grades I was climbing but the toe stayed un-pissed. Scarpa made (might still make) some good, stiff, fairly downturned shoes (feroce's i think?) that might satisfy a similar bill. You might also look into the stonelands, they're designed to be a flat foot (less smashing) shoe and still edge well.
It is about time to do some shopping. I was just going to get new Miura's but I could look at others. La Sportiva and Scarpa seem to be the best for my foot.
frankstoneline · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 30
nicelegs wrote: It is about time to do some shopping. I was just going to get new Miura's but I could look at others. La Sportiva and Scarpa seem to be the best for my foot.
I have a pair of scarpa feroce's which may be the best technical edging shoe i've had the pleasure of owning, and they maintain a heel which doesnt mash my foot forward, such that a comfortable fit remains comfortable. I was a pretty die-hard miura guy (if you havent given em a shot, a pair of the velcros might be enough change, i feel like they have a slightly roomier toe box and better edging support)
Mitch Musci · · Estes Park, CO · Joined Apr 2002 · Points: 665

Nicelegs, do you have bunions? What part of the toe hurts? It could be related to the tapering toe box of most modern footwear, which definitely includes climbing shoes. A place to start would be to walk around barefoot as much as possible, and get some toe spreaders to help with alignment and blood flow. Agreed, climbing shoes are terrible for the human foot but like you said, can't expect to climb hard by resoling some clown shoes with sticky rubber.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

Is the Feroce a Velcro Miura? I have only climbed in Miura Lace and like them a lot. Is the Velcro stiffer?

I do like the idea of a roomier toe box.

Does the downturn flatten out? I rarely climb consistently overhung routes (too weak for rifle), and I don't want to suffer with a downturn on Devils Head and Shelf.

Mitch, the only bunion on my feet is a Taylors Bunion on the same foot as the bad big toe. A Taylors Bunion is on the little toe side. Mine occasionally will be sore but hasn't given me a moments thought in years. It sure looks like I could use a spreader there but I actually don't know anyone with 10+ years experience whose feet don't look like they need a spreader. As far as bunions and mashing goes, my fiance's feet look way worse than mine (in a cute way of course) and she never seems to have the foot pain I have.

frankstoneline · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 30
nicelegs wrote:Is the Feroce a Velcro Miura? I have only climbed in Miura Lace and like them a lot. Is the Velcro stiffer? I do like the idea of a roomier toe box. Does the downturn flatten out? I rarely climb consistently overhung routes (too weak for rifle), and I don't want to suffer with a downturn on Devils Head and Shelf. Mitch, the only bunion on my feet is a Taylors Bunion on the same foot as the bad big toe. A Taylors Bunion is on the little toe side. Mine occasionally will be sore but hasn't given me a moments thought in years. It sure looks like I could use a spreader there but I actually don't know anyone with 10+ years experience whose feet don't look like they need a spreader. As far as bunions and mashing goes, my fiance's feet look way worse than mine (in a cute way of course) and she never seems to have the foot pain I have.
The feroce is similar to the velcro miura in shape (it will flatten some) but seemed to be stiffer than the velcro miura to me. My only velcro miura experiences have been brief, but they certainly felt stiffer than the lace version to me (I've owned several pairs of the laces).
amarius · · Nowhere, OK · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 20

RC.com has a thread covering some toe issues. It is, most likely, not related to what you have, but perhaps some ideas regarding the shoes might be worth considering
Hallux Rigidus thread

FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

Have you considered seeing a podiatrist? If you do see one, don't mention the previous diagnosis of turf toe. Let him give a diagnosis without the suggestion of another doctor's diagnosis.

Aerili · · Los Alamos, NM · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 1,875

You haven't actually said where your injury is located. Edit: because "my big toe" is generic.

Turf toe implies the 1st MTP joint. Is this the case?

Patrick Shyvers · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10

If you can't get a solid diagnosis, it's hard to give much advice, but a certain man comes to mind;

What has two arms, one leg, and climbs like a mofo? Craig DeMartino

I've watched him climb and he is incredible. He uses his feet like a surgeon uses a scalpel.

The point is, if you have to wear a gumby shoe on your right foot to keep it working- like Craig, you still have the left one. With good footwork & all the rest, I bet you could still bag 12's and 13's.

As for what exactly your toe needs... you can get all kinds of creative. For example, if it was me and what my toe needed was stabilizing, I'd probably craft some kind of metal footbed and split my toe to it. A pain in the butt and would probably make it hard to smear, but better than no climbing. Comes right back to my first point though, you need to know what's wrong to try fixing it.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

Aerili, it's the most distal joint on the right big toe. I don't think that is the 1st mtp but I've been wrong before.

Patrick Shyvers · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jul 2013 · Points: 10

MTP:



http://www.northtownsorthopedics.com/2012/05/02/first-metatarsophalangeal-joint-arthritis/
Tim Kemple · · Salt Lake · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 170

Hi, I am a Podiatrist and have been climbing for over 40 years. You need to get an accurate diagnosis, to determine the best treatment. It is obvious that the cortisone injections helped, but it is not advisable to repeat them too often. The xray that was posted has the first MTP circled. Is the pain in that region? This is a complicated joint with two small bones underneath that can be problematic.

If the pain is in the distal, or interphalangeal joint, it is much simpler.

The advice to avoid shoes that buckle the great toe is sound. The Testarossas, Miuras, etc are toe wreckers.

My advice is to find a foot specialist and get a diagnosis, then you can try shoe modification, etc to minimize the problem. If all else fails, there are surgical options, but only if you know exactly what you are dealing with.

Good luck!

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

I have had the same problem for years now as a result of my right foot being more than a half size bigger than my left. I've been using a shoe stretcher to keep the right shoe stretched out(width and length) and it has been working pretty well for the last year or so BUT I still have the pain, its just not as bad. Most of my old shoes just sit around now and collect dust while I use the loosest fitting shoes I own which are stiff edging shoes(scarpa force).

I plan on buying some chuffer n00b bulk shoes soon and just dealing, I might even start wearing socks with the chuffer gumby n00b shoes as well. My grade whoring days are over anyways, I just want to be able to climb into retirement without pain killers and injections that mask the problem while it gets worse.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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