Thanks for that sweet biner!!!

Hey i just wanted to reach out to the climbing community and say thank you to the person that stick clipped their way up my project to take 3 draws. You should have used your ambition to steal my draw on something more useful, but i do appreciate that leaver biner you left on the last bolt. Next time you are out there though, feel free to put them back and stop taking other peoples gear, and ill leave you biner at the base for you. I hope you step in fresh dog poop and then smear it in your car!

Ian Cavanaugh wrote: I hope you step in fresh dog poop and then smear it in your car!

^
+1

That's pretty cheesy stealing project draws. Where was this at? What climb?

I have been meaning to start replacing my old bd draws. I think I could donate 3 or 4 to the cause if you need a few to replace the ones that were taken.

Pm me if you need a couple of draws to get back to working your project. Otherwise good luck on it and I hope no one jacks your toys again.

i guess it'll be obvious that i'm a moderate trad climber, so...

how does one distinguish between someone's "project" and booty left by someone who had no business being on the route?

is there an official grade barrier where you're allowed to leave draws and call it a project not to be disturbed by anyone not in the know or the club? 5.12? 5.13b? what? is it a project if there's been a first redpoint? if i want to hangdog my way up 5.12b, and nobody knows me locally, do i get to expect that nobody's going to clean up after me when i leave my draws and call it a project? or is 5.12b not hard enough for it to be allowed?

i hate "project draws" or "permanent draws". stop leaving shit all over the cliffs just 'cuz it's really hard and you think that makes you special. if you can't make progress without leaving draws, do a grade easier until you can.

that said, i didn't and wouldn't take down someone's draws, mostly because i have better things to do on the few days i get to climb.

If it's really overhung, that's not booty
If every bolt has a draw on it, that's not booty
If you think to yourself "I wonder why someone would just leave all this nice gear here", that's probably not booty
If you have to stick clip your way up, thats not booty (and if it was, you gotta earn that booty by climbing it)
If you're not sure, that's not booty

If there's just 1 of something, it's probably booty (again, unless it's very overhung)

Same thing if you're trad climbing. If you find one piece of gear in the middle of a route, it was left there maybe intentionally or by acciden, either way that's booty. If you come up to a pitch with gear fully placed, then someone probably got hurt and left everything. That's not booty

how do you know they stick clipped up it? What route are we talking about?

Maybe they just couldn't climb any higher.

drock3 wrote: If every bolt has a draw on it, that's not booty

This is the only part I agree with but I agree with it 100%. I will admit that when I first started climbing and didn't know people did this, I would have tried to get them down. Luckily for other people's projects I wouldn't have been able to get them because I wasn't/am not good enough.

Unfortunately people snag project draws despite if they know better or not. GL, hope you get your send soon.

This is a new route I put up in Castle Rock State Park. the route is 110 ft with 3 bolts on it. These 3 bolts protect the most difficult climbing and are stop half way up the route, gear to the top. there is about 20-25 ft of gear climbing to get to the first bolt. This route is not in the guide but is right off the trail to comp wall, some everyone walks past it. I normally don't leave draws but i was there recently, made good progress and knew i would return soon. If the person could climb through the bolted section, they could climb to the chains, instead a bail biner was left at the third bolt. This is what makes me think that they just sticked up the bolts to get gear. I will admit, 3 spirit draws would look pretty tempting, but still a shitty thing to do.

Paul, thanks but i think i got it covered. I really appreciate the offer though.

Jasper says takin' project draws, that's a paddlin'.

Bummer Ian. Good luck with the route. Will likely be one of the hardest gear lines in the state when youre done i imagine. Beautiful line too!

Apparently the climbing folk at the COR has thieves amongst their midst, BEWARE.
No surprise to anyone reading this but if you are a "climbing thief," understand that you might be a dirtbag on your last stop too nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE!

I TOTALLY AGREE!!! If you can't climb it and hang your own draws obviously you are climbing way over your grade. Why don't you take a step back and practice on something you can hang your own draws on, or are you more excited about spurting out big numbers than clim in style? Keep your permanent draws off our walls. It is not stealing to remove and reuse trash left around the environment. Thanks to all you hard workers out there cleaning up the crags. Lets keep the environment clean.

To those ragging on OP for climbing above his grade, it sounds like he was working on an FA

Patrick Shyvers wrote:To those ragging on OP for climbing above his grade, it sounds like he was working on an FA

Ha! I did that route on gear in 1992!

News Flash!! - People steal things. Thats why I lock my car when I have gear in it, or dont leave my rack hanging on a tree in my campsite when I am not there. You cant expect others to follow your ethics. Just read the newspaper. Believe it or not, all climbers are not ethical and honest folks. Some steal, and some are just ignorant. This could have been either. Maybe he only led up to the last bolt because he was a sport climber and didnt have gear to finish the route. Maybe he was a theif, maybe just dumb. Either way, thats the risk you take when you leave gear. 99% of us would have known and left it alone, but its the other 1% you have to plan for. Its a State Park and not a private community. Is it wrong, yes. Does it suck, yes. Should you be surprised in this day and age with all the new climbers out there, hell no. The second half of the route was gear. Would you have left preplaced trad pro there as well and expected it to be there when you came back, or would you not have beacuse of the value? Leaving draws is kind of like climbing in general -risk/reward. Does the reward of not having to re-hang them outweigh the risk of having then stolen?

Patrick Shyvers wrote:To those ragging on OP for climbing above his grade, it sounds like he was working on an FA

if so was it tagged?

Don't mind eyesonice2014, dude is just a troll. Good luck with the project

Taylor Badeau wrote:Don't mind eyesonice2014, dude is just a troll. Good luck with the project

Dude, it's NOT a FA. That climb has been there for ages. Get your panties out of a bunch.

Did not say it was, just wished him good luck on his project. I am clearly not as "dope" a climber as you are but I am pretty sure you can project a route that is not a FA. Congrats on leading the thing on gear though, we're all super proud of you. Seems to me, and not just based on your post in this particular thread, you seem to really want to assert yourself as a real badass climber and marginalize all others. So alright we get it, you're the best dirtbagging climber on the planet, we all bow down and worship you in all your glory.

drock3 wrote: If every bolt has a draw on it, that's not booty

Not always true, a lot of times people leave draws through the crux sequences only or hard to clip stances.

ton wrote:i guess it'll be obvious that i'm a moderate trad climber, so...

you have no business to comment on this thread then, please go away.

doligo wrote: you have no business to comment on this thread then, please go away.

right, 'cuz the ethics of a hard climber can only be assessed by those equally hard.

stop leaving gear on walls because you're "projecting". it's arrogant, lazy, self-centered BS.