Why Are Ice Climbers Such A$$holes?

Ryan and Jesse Morse-Brady wrote:If you truely believe what you preach why not post up some cool non classics that you have climbed on this website to start a new trend to uncover said mystery climbs.

I have been. That's the problem. Every time I look for a partner to show around on MP. I get hate mail. Every time I post an obscure route, I get hate mail. What to you want to know about? I'm an open book.

Stephen Berwanger wrote: I have been. That's the problem. Every time I look for a partner to show around on MP. I get hate mail. Every time I post an obscure route, I get hate mail. What to you want to know about. I'm an open book??

Pictures, detailed trail description, GPS coordinates, best season to climb, where to camp/eat/etc. Bring in the goods! We want lead able ice, we want top ropes, mixed stuff, obscure adventure routes. Bring it all. Build it from the ground up!

I think Highlander and Passive Aggression sum it up pretty well. Share and people will share with you. Help find new resources to make the whole community better. Steve raises a valid point; seems like in the "old days" folks like Jack Roberts, Kelly Cordes any many others got out there early and were psyched to share what they found. That ethic is less prevalent today it seems - could just be my perception. He wasn't calling out Will or Aaron (though I admit the timing of his post was unfortunate - and accidental) both of whom also share tons of information freely in many cases or in other cases if you take the trouble to ask.

Steve is a good guy and has contributed more to ice and alpine climbing in Colorado and perhaps elsewhere too than, I'd guess, everyone else in this thread combined (OK, maybe except for Dow). You could assume he meant well (despite the provocative title), or worst case was having a bad day, or slag on and alienate him - see what benefit it gets you (other than feeling better about yourselves for a few minutes) vs what you might lose.

Let the mis-characterizations of what I've said and the personal attacks begin!

Stephen Berwanger wrote: Jeez Dow, I was being nice at 2% wanted to post 10.....And we even talked about climbing together a few years back?!? Thought you were one of the good ones. I guess it's 3% now :)

Though he too has contributed a lot in some ways, Dow does like to slag-off others he perceives as less hard than his estimable self in these forums even if he has otherwise had cordial interactions with them in the past. If hope others will be more charitable with him should he ever mis-step.

Vincent B. wrote: Pictures, detailed trail description, GPS coordinates, best season to climb, where to camp/eat/etc. Bring in the goods! We want lead able ice, we want top ropes, mixed stuff, obscure adventure routes. Bring it all. Build it from the ground up!

Sorry. I don't do GPS. Too high tech for me :). I usually share my finds after I've completed all climbs in the area. First on FB to get the feedback from the people in the community I know. The next season, after I've had feedback and Ive done my research on the climb I post on MP. Honestly I'm better at giving conditions than new routes as I really don't climb that hard.

Stephen Berwanger wrote: Sorry. I don't do GPS. Too high tech for me :). I usually share my finds after I've completed all climbs in the area. First on FB to get the feedback from the people in the community I know. The next season, after I've had feedback and Ive done my research on the climb I post on MP. Honestly I'm better at giving conditions than new routes as I really don't climb that hard.

You sound like a really nice and resourceful guy. Why all hate mail then? Am I missing something? So, do you mostly follow those routes? Which is legit to me, as long as your beta is comprehensible.

Vincent B. wrote: You sound like a really nice and resourceful guy. Why all hate mail then? Am I missing something? So, do you mostly follow those routes? Which is legit to me, as long as your beta is comprehensible.

That's why I made this post. I don't get it either. But you saw some of these responses, i was a "sprayer" by being honest about my friends. No, I lead a lot, I'm just not a badass M8/9/10 leader like many others out there (I'm sure Dow is, he's climbed in Canada for 10 seasons). I LOVE climbing ice!! I don't care about how hard it is I just love to climb Ice I've never climbed before. I'll put a few more climbs I've found over the last couple weeks up soon. Stay tuned.

Ryan and Jesse Morse-Brady wrote:What about "Legalized" I drooled over that last year when I could not visit WY I bet it is in right now!

It's not in yet. It's on the North facing side of the South Fork Valley. It is left of One Hitter and Moratorium area. For it to come in it needs to be really wet with a slow cold temp drop. Once it gets too cold it "locks off". I'd give it 4-6 weeks before we will know. Hit me up then and I'll let you know or check Coldfear.com

Stephen Berwanger wrote: That's why I made this post. I don't get it either. But you saw some of these responses, i was a "sprayer" by being honest about my friends. No, I lead a lot, I'm just not a badass M8/9/10 leader like many others out there (I'm sure Dow is, he's climbed in Canada for 10 seasons). I LOVE climbing ice!! I don't care about how hard it is I just love to climb Ice I've never climbed before. I'll put a few more climbs I've found over the last couple weeks up soon. Stay tuned.

I feel your pain! Climbing ice is like nothing else. The aesthetics are unsurpassed. Just keep on posting. Haters will be hating....

So... years ago, I wanted to get out of town and climb something. I went off to the east side of the Sierra, and started up Conness. I realized I didn't have the acclimatization to get up there, so I pulled off into a nice looking gully, and climbed it. No guidebook, no beta, no info - I'm sure it was available - but I wanted an adventure, and didn't look for info. I just wanted to climb, free of the fear of ratings, free of the mental control a guidebook implants in my head. Maybe I did a first ascent. Probably not. I don't see how not passing on info on that route diminishes or hurts anyone.

caribouman1052 wrote:So... years ago, I wanted to get out of town and climb something. I went off to the east side of the Sierra, and started up Conness. I realized I didn't have the acclimatization to get up there, so I pulled off into a nice looking gully, and climbed it. No guidebook, no beta, no info - I'm sure it was available - but I wanted an adventure, and didn't look for info. I just wanted to climb, free of the fear of ratings, free of the mental control a guidebook implants in my head. Maybe I did a first ascent. Probably not. I don't see how not passing on info on that route diminishes or hurts anyone.

Here we go again...wasn't this subject already beat to death in at least one other thread!? Give it up! This is a climbing BETA website. Do they talk beta here? Well, yes sir they do! For no beta look on elsewhere.

Geeze, I admire guys that are out there getting after it trumping around hunting for the unknown ice. I understand if they don't want to share all their hard work with others. My thoughts are if you want to know where the new lines are get out and find them yourself or even better- trade info- " hey I found this great line you should check it out " I bet that would go along ways to getting info on the ice you are looking for. This thread sounds a little too entitled. " I climb ice so you need to tell me where your stashes are". If you want to know where ice is, go get after it and find some for yourself.
Dallen

Sunny-D wrote:Geeze, I admire guys that are out there getting after it trumping around hunting for the unknown ice. I understand if they don't want to share all their hard work with others. My thoughts are if you want to know where the new lines are get out and find them yourself or even better- trade info- " hey I found this great line you should check it out " I bet that would go along ways to getting info on the ice you are looking for. This thread sounds a little too entitled. " I climb ice so you need to tell me where your stashes are". If you want to know where ice is, go get after it and find some for yourself. Dallen

2% of ice climbers are like you, greedy of ice. I suppose in Utah it's more of a commodity then in BC, but hey, does it really get so hacked that you will not be willing to share some of your finds with your fellow climbers? Ice has a tendency to regrow, ya know?

Stephen I would not take the hate mail too seriously, I received some hate mail last year from a certain local just for adding some ticks here on my MP profile and putting what condition they were in just for my own notes.

Sunny-D wrote:This thread sounds a little too entitled. " I climb ice so you need to tell me where your stashes are". If you want to know where ice is, go get after it and find some for yourself. Dallen

Can't help but agree. You can have your own ethos, you can share your finds with your friends. But people you've never met don't owe you anything. Maybe if they asked for tips from you and they never reciprocated they aren't being fair, but if they don't want to tell you, that's their choice. IMO they aren't assholes for it either.

If you and I are pumpkin growers and I don't want to share my secrets for growing tasty pumpkins, am I an asshole? At least in my book, no.

I'm more in the "share" camp, but just because I share doesn't mean anybody is required to share back *shrug*

MP ice beta

I agree with Stephen, that sharing info allows for our sport to progress with more FA's and more info to thin out the crowds from just "the guide book climbs." Take a look at the 2014/15 Ice Condition Thread, it's super lame this season, it's just post after post about the Longs/Meeker Cirque...Boring, those climb are always good and classic.

Hey Colorado, go think out side the box!

http://i.imgur.com/FvVTb87.jpg

20 kN wrote: Not for long. More people were born from 1950 - 2000 than the combined preceding 4,540,000,000 years before that.... It fathoms my mind that more people have been born in my lifetime than in the 75,000,000+ combined lifetimes before that. I dont even know how that's possible.

Yet again, a completely irrelevant to the topic of the thread post from an administrator.
Edit: that is not to say some turtles breaths don't stink, Bill. Believe me, those are the kind of entitled self righteous whipper snappers you hear talking up a storm out of their rear end.
Steve, so did you start it all just because someone said they climbed your FA and it was their "secret stash"? Noooo! And you bought THAT?! Hahahahaha. You Crack me up.

Vincent B. wrote: Yet again, a completely irrelevant to the topic of the thread post from an administrator.

Jeez dude, they're people not robots. And he was directly responding to Passive Aggressive's post. So what's the problem? It's not like your Jack Nicholson picture added much to the conversation.