Screamers a must?
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Noob to ice here, going to be spending this season top roping it, but out of curiosity, does one have to use screamers on every screw? |
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The short answer is no; most people will not use screamers on every screw. They are preferable if the ice surrounding the screw is suspect, brittle, fragile etc. or you are reasonably certain there's a chance the screw might blow given a fall. Some people carry one or two. Many carry none in my experience. |
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First screw, sketchy screw, or stubby. |
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And remember not to fall while leading ice. :) |
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Screamers (disclaimer, I own some) are still up in the air in terms of their effectiveness. AKA it's not scientifically proven that they do any good. Or rather the application to which they do good is so narrow and coincidentally plagued by other side effects that their effectiveness is arguable. I'm too lazy to pull out the fact-book and citations (I'm sure other MPers can read this, get fired up, and come in guns blazing with retort) but I wanted to present the argument that they're not necessarily needed at all, contrary to the way you inquired. |
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There is research that claims their effectiveness is marginal, this is the most scientific analysis I have found which indicates the benefits in certain situations. Judge for yourself. |
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Kevin Zagorda wrote:There is research that claims their effectiveness is marginal, this is the most scientific analysis I have found which indicates the benefits in certain situations. Judge for yourself. blackdiamondequipment.com/e…Interesting read! I appreciate it a lot! |
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Thanks for all the info, most of what I have read lately gave the impression that they were used for every screw. |
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Kevin Zagorda wrote:First screw, .Unless you hit the ground. I am not sure ice screws are as crap as most people think. I have seen a study that shows a well placed screw in ice can hold 15kN+. So while people are constantly afraid of screws pulling, where are all these pulling screws? Has anyone actually pulled one? The falls I have seen occur on screws ended perfectly fine. |
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Tom Sherman wrote:Screamers (disclaimer, I own some) are still up in the air in terms of their effectiveness. AKA it's not scientifically proven that they do any good. Or rather the application to which they do good is so narrow and coincidentally plagued by other side effects that their effectiveness is arguable. I'm too lazy to pull out the fact-book and citations (I'm sure other MPers can read this, get fired up, and come in guns blazing with retort) but I wanted to present the argument that they're not necessarily needed at all, contrary to the way you inquired.According to Yates they are the schznit. yatesgear.com/climbing/scre… But I dont believe their claims. I am with everyone else, skip the screamers. |
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if you climb ice with screamers I immediately consider you a noob. They're useless unless you're on hard aid, in which case the psychological protection is worth its weight in gold. |
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What Kevin Z said. They might not help but they can't hurt (although some obscure European paper is said to have shown this in extremely unlikely instances - not sure it was ever adequately translated in prior heated discussions of this topic). I also like stretchy ropes though they have their drawbacks too and in all likelihood the rope will save you more often than a "Screamer". That's just what I do. YMMV. Get a good mentor and do what they do. Insults based on my practices will be cheerfully ignored. |
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20 kN wrote: Unless you hit the ground. I am not sure ice screws are as crap as most people think. I have seen a study that shows a well placed screw in ice can hold 15kN+. So while people are constantly afraid of screws pulling, where are all these pulling screws? Has anyone actually pulled one? The falls I have seen occur on screws ended perfectly fine.Good point - My only lead fall was on a first screw with a screamer. I did not even activate the screamer, but I only weigh 150#. My partner once took a long lead fall on a 3rd screw and did rip the screamer, but the screw probably would have held without it. |
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Keenan Waeschle wrote:if you climb ice with screamers I immediately consider you a noob. They're useless unless you're on hard aid, in which case the psychological protection is worth its weight in gold.What makes you think ice climbers don't appreciate "psychological protection" too? |
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Keenan Waeschle wrote:if you climb ice with screamers I immediately consider you a noob. They're useless unless you're on hard aid, in which case the psychological protection is worth its weight in gold.I guess that makes House and Twight noobs on the FA of "The Gift That Keeps on Giving - Mt. Bradley, Alaska Range", where Steve used screamers for his first screws. Reference: Kiss or Kill by Mark Twight. Just sayin" |
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I have and use 4 screamers. I think they help, from personal experience with them. That said I think they are the most applicable on the first couple of placements and interesting ice or rock placements. I know a lot of guys that don't use any. For me it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I have a couple and can opt to use them. It is very much a personal preference. I think having a nice low impact force rope is going to be the best option for ice. . |
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Keenan Waeschle wrote:if you climb ice with screamers I immediately consider you a noob. They're useless unless you're on hard aid, in which case the psychological protection is worth its weight in gold.Wow, a completely useless statement. Screamer's are indeed marginal in terms of effectiveness. There is discussion that the fall forces actually increase at the moment of loading the extended screamer and the screw. I used to use one or two, no longer do. They take up space on your rack and the effectiveness is too questionable to make them worth taking. A well placed screw is the best thing no matter what. As a newbie, you shouldn't really be leading things that you might consider marginal enough to think of using a screamer. Climb bomber, solid ice to gain your chops. Climb many, many lines like this. Then, maybe start to think about sketchy leads. Stay safe! |