Why Are Ice Climbers Such A$$holes?

Well, not all of them. Actually 98% are great people who are passionate about our sport. My concern is is this ongoing secretiveness of climbs and conditions. Once you've climbed something why not share your adventure? The great Alex Lowe so eloquently put it in the 1995 Barrel Mountaineering log book "To share your love for ice climbing is a gift - Write down your events".

Although there are more ice climbers than ever before there are still not many of us when looking at the general population. There's really not many of us compared to the general climbing population either. I'm guessing here but there is probably only 1 ice climber for every 50 rock climbers. We seem to be pushing people away and creating an exclusive community instead of an inclusive community that shares the passion for this amazing sport of ours. If more people were open about their adventures wouldn't we be lightening the load on the standard climbs that everyone bitches about being "over crowded"?

Obviously this attitude is more prolific during early season but once you've climbed something why not share? It is understandable if you want to tick off all the climbs in your "new area" before being too public about them but when you're done, share? If you look at the whole ice climbing population there still only a small percentage of these people that are motivated to "get out there" and climb new/ obscure ice lines. Most ice climbers are still "guide book climbers". Why not create an inclusive community that encourages exploration?

So I cordially ask the community SHARE YOUR PASSION!! Don't be that exclusive egotistical asshole that thinks they own or somehow has the more of right to frozen water. Nobody likes "That Guy".

I'm assuming this relates to a certain Alpinist article that was just posted? I can't remember, but hasn't that climber shared most, if not all of the routes he's found in that area? I'm sure it will come out in time.

I´ve no interest in aid climbing in the f#cking cold so I won´t be cluttering up your routes for sure.

Eric Bates!! NO NO NO!!!! Funny thing is I just pulled the new Alpinist out of my mail box. Haven't read article but assuming you are talking of Will Mayo's article? I have met Will and actually had the opportunity to compete head to head with him at the last Ouray Speed Comp. I have the utmost respect for Will and think he is a great guy.

This post has nothing to do with 1 specific event or article but a trend I've seen over my 20 years of ice climbing.

Haha actually Stephen I was talking about the article about Aaron Mulkey and co's new route, it was just posted today. This is what made me think you were referring to it:

"Guyer and Mulkey came across Lastcall on an October 17 trail run deep in an undisclosed part of the northern Beartooths, where they had seen formations previously."

Seemed to fit with your post! All makes sense now though, thanks.

Eric Bites wrote:Haha actually Stephen I was talking about the article about Aaron Mulkey and co's new route, it was just posted today. This is what made me think you were referring to it: "Guyer and Mulkey came across Lastcall on an October 17 trail run deep in an undisclosed part of the northern Beartooths, where they had seen formations previously." Seemed to fit with your post! All makes sense now though, thanks.

Eric,
An even bigger NO NO NO. Those are 3 great friends of mine!!! I'm guessing you haven't seen many of his "Regulator" series, I'm in a lot of them. I was up climbing with Mulkey last weekend. I've been to Norway twice with Aaron and countless number of days in the mountains. Aaron shares his adventures with the community constantly with his website Coldfear.com.

PLEASE!!! this is NOT 1 specific event just a trend.

Ice climbing is stupid I wouldn't brag about if I was dumb enough to do it. Same goes for off widths. Stupid. Yer dumb.

Jim and Tug have already proven my point!!! Even in the general climbing community ice climbers are a minority....

Tug wrote:Ice climbing is stupid I wouldn't brag about if I was dumb enough to do it. Same goes for off widths. Stupid. Yer dumb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

Not in Canada! They are ALL super nice there!

It's an ephemeral medium. Much like attractive ladies at a LoDo bar on a Friday night, there's going to be natural competition for what's there.

I don't necessarily think this is inherently tied to ice. Popular alpine routes have the same issue. This summer, I had this dude literally try to cut me off on the D1 pillar of the casual route after my partner and I had waited 20 minutes for the party in front of us got moving. I was climbing up. And he was hucking up the pillar beneath me and to the left. Hell bent on beating me to the first belay. I turned to look at him, and in no uncertain terms asked him "what the f$&@ [he] thought [he] was doing" before pointing at the finger crack above and asking how he expected to pass me on it.

The crazy thing was, this was a dude I ran into out ice climbing six months earlier at a "secret stash" area. On that occasion, he was actually a cool ass dude whose conversation was cordial and quite enjoyable. But he somehow morphed into "super asshole mode" once we got to Broadway.

Most of history's wars have been fought over either religion or resources. And I think that spawns from an evolutionary need to dominate limited resources. Ice climbing just brings out that deep seated need to possess that which is in short supply.

True Vincent...Canadian Rockies is where it is at for ice and good folks/partners...after 10 seasons up there, it is hard to get excited about much in the lower 48...or maybe just easier to stay warm and climb sandstone. That is probably more like it.

Only 2% of his peers are assholes and the OP is complaining???? Just sounds like someone wanting to toot his own horn to me.

had the opportunity to compete head to head with him at the last Ouray Speed Comp

I'm guessing you haven't seen many of his "Regulator" series, I'm in a lot of them.

Stephen Berwanger wrote:I have met Will and actually had the opportunity to compete head to head with him at the last Ouray Speed Comp.

Stephen Berwanger wrote:I'm guessing you haven't seen many of his "Regulator" series, I'm in a lot of them. I was up climbing with Mulkey last weekend. I've been to Norway twice with Aaron and countless number of days in the mountains.

Spray. SPRAY SPRAY SPRAY!!
Which is also a trend.

Edit: ah shit, Dow Williams beat me to it.

The Blueprint Part Dank wrote:The crazy thing was, this was a dude I ran into out ice climbing six months earlier at a "secret stash" area. On that occasion, he was actually a cool ass dude whose conversation was cordial and quite enjoyable. But he somehow morphed into "super asshole mode" once we got to Broadway. Most of history's wars have been fought over either religion or resources. And I think that spawns from an evolutionary need to dominate limited resources. Ice climbing just brings out that deep seated need to possess that which is in short supply.

Yep. Luckily I have lost interest in ice routes over the years and have been content to climb at winter rock crags. Most of the alpine climbing I have done lately has been on obscure or remote routes, too. That helps the situation a lot.

In Canada they have so much ice they can afford to be nice. :-)

First of all Stephen is a great guy, humble and very generous. Those of you bashing on him are the jerks.

Not sure why some ice climbers are such assholes, but I also think back country skiers can have same mentality of trying to keep their zones, areas, or conditions secret, simply because they don't want to share a resource that is here today, gone tomorrow or hacked out, skied out by the masses.

Why not share info on obscure backcountry climbs that most climbers won't seek out? It might spread out the masses from classic road side climbs or it might not. Lots of climbers today are lazy and really are not into adventure climbing or making a long approach to a climb that may or may not be in.
Many of us joke around about not sharing info on early season ice conditions or info on a climb that rarely comes in, but the truth is most of us really don't care. There is always going to be that crusty climber that does not want the info out there, whether it's in a guidebook or on MP.

Share your stoke with others if you want to and don't let others bring you down, life is too short. Besides it only climbing, not like we are finding a cure for cancer or something.
Have fun!

Dank,

Here is another possibility. Instead of having limited resources we live in a world of extreme abundance. Planet Earth is prolific and provides for all the needs of all the inhabitants. It is a misperception of the human mind that our resources are limited. That misperception creates fear, fear turns to violence and desperation. It is not an evolutionary need and never has been for any life form besides humans to live in this way. It is instead the result of mental disconnection from the source which causes us to act in unhealthy ways.

Boissal wrote: Spray. SPRAY SPRAY SPRAY!! Which is also a trend. Edit: ah shit, Dow Williams beat me to it.

Sorry. I can see how you interpreted that way. Anyone that knows me knows I am the complete opposite of that. It took me by surprise on the first responses and i felt it was a attempt to personalize it. I was just standing up for my friends who I admire and respect. Sorry for coming off that way. Kinda ironic huh? :)

Dow Williams wrote:That is probably more like it. Only 2% of his peers are assholes and the OP is complaining???? Just sounds like someone wanting to toot his own horn to me. had the opportunity to compete head to head with him at the last Ouray Speed Comp I'm guessing you haven't seen many of his "Regulator" series, I'm in a lot of them.

Jeez Dow,
I was being nice at 2% wanted to post 10.....And we even talked about climbing together a few years back?!? Thought you were one of the good ones. I guess it's 3% now :)

Dow and Boissal, you are both out of line. Stephen is the most humble silent bone crusher on ice out there. You just never heard of him, because he's not going around spraying about his pursuits to get free gear here and there. On the opposite, he gives away money in the form of grants and donations (he's one of a bigger donors to the Ouray Ice Park, you both probably got to benefit from).

Direct quote from the introduction of the ice forum on Mountain Project:

"Those of you drawn to this aspect of the sport will search far and wide for some new, undiscovered dribble of the frozen variety. You will tramp all day based upon a narrow set of topographical lines on a map, drive hours based upon a rumor, drag half your weight in gear up miles of unpacked trails just looking for that next line. You'll call friends, call friends of friends, squeeze climbing shop employees for conditions, and scan websites for updates on climbs. Hopefully, here you will find something useful, consider adding routes to the database, update conditions for your fellow ice climber, and contribute to this small but growing database. Please do not take offense to those who seek to share...for we all love this medium...it is a passion.

For those of you out there who long for the day when no one else but you and your partner were out there whacking away, please remember when this was your new found focus. Also, understand by adding to this information, we spread folks out to allow a better experience for all."

I think it's time for Steve to lead by example and enrich MP's very sparsely populated beta on epic ice climbing in CO and WY. In fact I vote for him to become the Administrator and the official area developer of this website, so lacking ice beta. Way to go on those grants, man! Bring us all to the ice!