Burlington

I grew up in richmond. Theres decent trad climbing at bolton, lots if potential for new routes up there. Bouldering and scary multi-pitch up in smugglers notch too. Some lakeside cliffs are being developed and youre two hours from rumney and 4 from cathedral. Theres enough climbing to keep you happy for a while plus two good local gyms. But honestly its not anywhere close to the quality or quantity of CO rock. Its all schist too which is usually crimpy and runout and can get boring after a while. There is ice climbing but winter is fickle and conditions unreliable. Burlington is an awesome place to live, winooski is getting really nice too and essex is habitable. Theres some cool towns outside burlington like waterbury and Johnson. As for leashless snowshowing and hiking i have no idea what you mean by that... Like letting your dog off its leash? Yea you can do that anywhere

Nate K wrote:Theres enough climbing to keep you happy for a while plus two good local gyms. But honestly its not anywhere close to the quality or quantity of CO rock. Its all schist too which is usually crimpy and runout and can get boring after a while. There is ice climbing but winter is fickle and conditions unreliable. winter.

This goes back to my previous comment--If you can find the value in sometimes climbing in less than ideal conditions (heat, humidity, drizzle, cold, etc.), then you'll certainly grow to love the Northeast. I'd also reckon that per square mile, the Northeast rivals anywhere out West, plus, the schist climbing Nate speaks of can seem runout, but only when compared to places like Rumney (bolts every 6 feet, typically), or Shagg. And contrary to Nate's claim that it's all schist, there happens to be a large amount of granite climbing in Vermont (Northeast Kingdom) that is grossly under-estimated.

...and then there's Gunks...you simply can't beat the place!

Chris has a good point, there is granite in the northeast kingdom. But when i said runout i was more referring to the smuggs notch multipitch than the bolton area cragging.

I'll add another perspective. I don't think anyone would move to the northern Vermont area for the climbing alone. Don't get me wrong, we have good to very good after work cragging in the Bolton area, both sport and trad, and a wealth of excellent easily day trippable areas in the Adirondacks. Weekend options abound in New Hampshire, the Gunks, and the more remote parts of the Adirondack park. Your options include everything from good sport climbing and single pitch cracks to excellent multipitch gear routes. I'm a reasonably well travelled climber, and some of this stuff is on par with the best anywhere, with the one caveat that it's all short. Even the "long" routes don't generally exceed the 4-6 pitch range (yes, peanut gallery- I know there are exceptions...). The quality is undeniable, though. Still, nobody moves here just to climb.

With all that said, if you value small town community, proximity to your family, a progressive political climate, and a generally very laid back lifestyle, it's a fantastic place to live. Throw in some very fine climbing, and for some the combination is highly desirable. I came back by choice after many years in the west, and have no plans to leave.

Chris mentioned home prices, and I agree. In Chittenden County, which includes the greater Burlington region, Richmond, and a number of other towns mentioned up thread, they are inflated. Addison county, where I live is a nice alternative. I'm 50 minutes to Burlington (but rarely have cause to go), 30 minutes to the Bolton crags, an hour and 15 minutes from Poke-O-Moonshine (one of the North East's very best cliffs), and the same from the Chapel Pond region of the Adirondack Park, the eastern shore of Lake George, and a handful of other destinations. The various NH crags (Cannon, Cathedral, Rumney, etc.) as well as the Gunks are all easy weekend trips. In fact for the fit and motivated, a Cannon route is entirely doable with an bit of an early departure from the office during mid summer when the days are long.

YMMV, but I love it here. Of course I get my western fixes a couple times per year for work, but I'd still be here even if that wasn't the case.

Best of luck wherever you end up!

Good point Derek. I guess I am not moving for the climbing, it's just going to be really hard to give it up

Off leash... Anywhere in the Adirondacks or Greens with the exception of the Adirondack High Peaks Wilderness Unit. Even then if your dog is well behaved (under your complete control) you won't have to many issues up high in the HPW. Only the summits and the lower elevation approach trails will usually get you ticketed. Again, this is only the High Peaks Unit of the Adirondacks, which has the most rules. Everywhere else dogs can be off leash.

Burlington is extremely dog friendly. I'm not really into the trendy towns and Burlington has my vote because it's got good beer and dog friendly atmosphere. Plus, the best part of Vermont is the views of the Adirondacks and Burlington has those.

Rutland is shit hole . avoid that part of the state if possible. Its hard to beat the north eastern ice and even fickel conditions create great routes.

Tina wrote:I guess I am not moving for the climbing, it's just going to be really hard to give it up

Has your family considered moving to CO instead? :D [I ask that half jokingly, because on a whole the West is growing while the East is stagnant... people leave here to go there, for a reason]

Fwiw, I know an avid climber from CO that moved here a few years ago and has been pretty much miserable the whole time. If it wasn't for the nearly mandatory conditions that drove him to move here, he would have gone back as quickly as he arrived. Just one more perspective to add to the mix of opinions being shared. Yes, there's climbing. Yes there's culture. But whether either will be sufficient for happiness is as much a product of the individual's needs as it is the area.

You would not be giving up climbing. My advice would be to set your expectations really low, then if you find things are better than expected great. Trying to convince you climbing in the NE is as good as you currently have would be insincere. Come into this with a sense of gloom and maybe the meh won't feel so meh.

To keep my outdoors time filled over the years I've been an avid hiker, paddler, and climber. Now also getting into skiing (when we have the winter for it) and a little biking. Tons of places to explore, and while not as big as out West there's certainly a distinct beauty to the area as you may recall. If in northern Vermont, it won't be as crowded as places to the South and east (closer to the metropolitan areas).

I want to also second the notion of living somewhere within driving distance of Burlington, but maybe more central for climbing purposes. Albany NY, western Mass, northwest CT are all centrally located for weekend trips to the Whites, Greens, Adirondacks, and of course the Gunks. If you want one or two places to be your backyard then stick with Burlington, but if you want variety of options within a few hours drive then look a bit further south. Jobs are likely more plentiful the further south you go as well.

Nick Goldsmith wrote:Rutland is shit hole . avoid that part of the state if possible. .

+1

I grew up here but didn't climb. I moved out west after becoming obsessed w/climbing in college, and spent time living in Moab, Western Washington and Salt Lake City. When I moved back I was bummed out for a little while until I realized we do actually have a shit ton of rock. When i lived in SLC, sure I could go cragging after work in the Wasatch, but on weekends I was driving 2-3 hrs for trips to Maple, Moab, City of Rocks, Uintas, etc...

now I crag after work at Rumney (which is better than any wasatch sport crag) and can drive the same amount to take weekend trips to North Conway, the Gunks, the Daks, etc. Yes it is rainy but if you are psyched it's not a big deal and after a while you will learn where to go to still climb in the rain.

Sure you don't have access to alpine climbing (well Cannon almost counts but the approach is short) but you have fantastic cragging options. Just because it isn't boulder doesn't mean you can't get out and crank.

I don't mean to jack the OPs thread but I'm facing a similar situation in the next two years.... Family in the north east or mountains in the west...

Interesting points on pros and cons. I'll be moving from the south east (Alabama) and by the sound of it, it would seem the Vermont area is similar for rock. 2hrs from great single pitch, 5 hours from great multi pitch. But the obvious bonus of winter sports up north...

Someone compared the northeast climbing to the Seattle/Leavenworth area up thread - which is exactly where we would be targeting if we went out west. Is the north east really as good? Thanks and good luck to the op in your future move.

I moved from Vermont to the suburbs of Philadelphia for family and work reasons, and I have been mostly pleased since our relocation. Yes, the closest good climbing is the Gunks, but there are plenty of sleepy little crags and hollows with enough decent sport climbing and bouldering to keep me satisfied. Not to mention, the crags of the SE are that much closer.

Being that my move was not for climbing, I lowered by expectations substantially. So, when I began to rediscover (I'm originally from the Philly area) the rock I grew up climbing on as a kid, I was pleasantly surprised. For my wife and myself, it was a conscious shift of perspective that helped keep us happy.

Tina, please tell me you like beer because if you do, you can't do much better than Burlington. Alchemist, Hill Farmstead, and a bunch of small artisan brewers are making the best beer in the world within an hour of Burlington!

Raul P wrote:...by the sound of it, it would seem the Vermont area is similar for rock. 2hrs from great single pitch, 5 hours from great multi pitch. But the obvious bonus of winter sports up north... Someone compared the northeast climbing to the Seattle/Leavenworth area up thread - which is exactly where we would be targeting if we went out west. Is the north east really as good?

Northern VT has multipitch within a few hours (some multipitch an hour+ West at Poko and Keene Valley NY/ADKs, and other spots in New Hampshire to the East). There's single pitch cragging closer than an hour.

The northeast doesn't have a Squamish within a day's drive.

The Northeast is a microcosmic snapshot of what the Northwest has to offer. Kevin is correct--there is certainly no Squamish comparison in the NE, but we do have the Mount Washington Valley and Keene Valley, arguably some of the best climbing around.

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate all the input. It makes the move a little easier.
Tina

I would say the most frustrating thing isn't rain, but rather inability to plan anything in advance. I'm fairly certain the weather out your way us pretty stable, but here it's often wrong or changes 5 times in 5 days. Often my weekend isn't planned come Thursday bedtime because it went from rain to sun, to possible rain, back to sun or rain.

When it rains, hiking is nice or paddling. But if you are in climbing mode, planning a weekend is a real PITA, especially if you want to go someplace else.

Since we are on the second page and no one mentioned it... you can also boulder in this state. And it's easier to drink our world class beer at the boulders than at the crags.

So that's something.

VT is a bit drier than the daks

Wow, A lot of ragging on vermont/east here in comparison with the west.

I think the climbing is great around here and I am amazed at what we keep digging up. Yeah, you can drive to the Daks and whites, and sure when I had no family and was in school at UVM I did that most weekends, but now holding down a full time job and having a family, I've realized how many good opportunities there are very close to home. I virtually never drive more that 1 hour to climb, not just out of necessity, but because there is that much good stuff close by and I probably have put in 70+ days on the rock this year. Why spend that much longer in a car when you could be climbing instead?

Yeah, we don't have 2000' alpine big walls, but really, where can you find jobs/family life that close to a big wall out west anyway?

Within 45 minutes drive of Burlington we have hundreds of sport routes, many trad pitches, routes up to 5 pitches long and alpine in character. Don't even get me started on ice climbing. Willoughby anyone? Show me any place in the lower 48 that stacks up in ease of access and volume of ice.

But, seriously though, stay away. The crags are getting crowded since tough schist came out- I've actually seen 3 or 4 parties at upper west on occasion this summer!

Seth Maciejowski wrote:Yeah, we don't have 2000' alpine big walls, but really, where can you find jobs/family life that close to a big wall out west anyway?

Denver and Seattle, to start. Salt Lake City, Flagstaff/Phoenix, ummm I know I'm missing some...

No one's ragging on the East, it's called perspective.